[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou distract and you name call.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'W')hile no one will argue that the collapse of the Soviet Union was graceful, I disagree that Russia has experienced the "Armegeddon" that most doomers speak of.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'P')lease tell me what I said in this thread that you disagree with so that I may debate you rather than bicker.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')But societal collapse is pretty equivalent to doom. Losing all your money, food lines, paying people with bottles of vodka or other goods, being forced to grow your own vegetables and frequently dealing with the mob as other authorities walk away or require on the spot payment. If what happened there happens here all the bartering permaculture people will be putting their skills to use

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')o you do not think this crud will offset decline.

[efarmer]

For me the oil sands dig in Canada at the scale it is taking place
is a semaphore. It basically says that we will go to any length, at
any long term risk, and accept damage to other fundamental
resources, before we seriously consider conservation of energy
in North America (and most other places as well). It is sort of like
attending a bonfire and the host runs out of wood, and starts
emptying out the house of furniture and tearing up floorboards
and ripping out kitchen cabinets to keep the fire and the party
going.

Also, steam_cannon, will "dieoff light" be running those fabulous
Superbowl commercials again?

"Same great dieoff taste, but with less bloat and feelings of prolonged angst and loss. Serve dieoff light at your next doom event! "

P.S. We only promote the legal and responsible use of dieoff light.
If you are pregnant or operating machinery, or if you experience
a dieoff lasting more than four hours; the use of dieoff light should
be curtailed and you are encouraged to consult a Doom
professional.

[Oil-Finder]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he opposite. Before the green revolution and the development of phosphate fertilizers (which incidentally began in the 1880's) specifically and the industrial revolution generally (propelled by another ancient sunlight energy--coal) human population was somewhat stable around 1-2 billion. Fertilizer, irrigation, and most especially agricultural colonialism propelled human population to double and triple in a geologically wink of an eye. We Europeans bred farm workers in our colonies as chattel.

[Blacksmith]

Convincing proof that an expert is a drip under pressure.

[Blacksmith]

PBG-T closed at $51.90 CDN

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')This quote sums up your confusion quite nicely. We are human animals, not gods.

[Oil-Finder]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pisser', '
')This quote sums up your confusion quite nicely. We are human animals, not gods. If you want to push your techno-religious b*llshit you will have to find someone else for the sermons.

[Blacksmith]

Your point?

California land of fruits and nuts.

[Oil-Finder]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'N')o, but that has rendered many butterflies species extinct.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')But societal collapse is pretty equivalent to doom. Losing all your money, food lines, paying people with bottles of vodka or other goods, being forced to grow your own vegetables and frequently dealing with the mob as other authorities walk away or require on the spot payment. If what happened there happens here all the bartering permaculture people will be putting their skills to use