[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oilluber', '
')I really don't think any significant solution is at hand...
the manufacturers are just dying to increase mpg,
so that driving and auto sales would ramp up again.

[whereagles]

the bimmer hydrogen7 is probably in the 6-digit neighbourhood

[evilgenius]

Anybody know anything about battery powered buses? Is any country using them extensively? How far can they travel before they need to be recharged? How quickly can they be recharged? what kind of configuration is required to recharge them, can that be done on the move or at discreet locations along their routes that can be planned upon? What about storage of power at renewable station points along the way? How far has the concept of ultracapacitors for power storage come when it comes to renewable power recharging stations for public transport vehicles?

[BlisteredWhippet]

Someone mentioned that diesels are more versatile. I disagree.

Spark ignition:

Hydrogen
Methane
Butane
Ethane
Propane
Ethanol
Gasoline
Alcohol
Propylene
Nitrous Oxide
Woodgas

Compression ignition:

Diesel
SVO

Now lets look at ease of manufacture: I defy you to home-brew a fuel that compression-ignites without the infrastructure of society.

Who grows their own rapeseed, synthesizes their own Methanol or produces Sodium Hydroxide? Nigga please. Biodiesel is never going to be a mainstream or sustainable self-producer. Biodiesel is a niche market for backyard chemists. There is no money in it except for added value of self-sustainability.

Ultimately, I argue, that the most sustainable fuel remains methane or ethanol, in terms of self-production. As we all know any industrial fuel is unsustainable, including ethanol. But Americans since the Republic was formed have been distilling liquid ethanol from sugars and starches.

Biodieselists are simply faddists who are going to be eating shit as soon as its apparent that unless you're growing your own, you are going to pay a high price for your fuel. I happen to think that, sooner or later, Diesel is going to be a restricted-use fuel for vital industries. And sooner or later people will realize the fry oil is killing them and McDonalds is going to sell their grease to refineries.

Diesel: good riddance!!

[DavidFolks]

BlisteredWhippet, what I said was that any combustible that could be delivered to the cylinders is a potential fuel for diesel, and that's true. Includes everything on your list but Nitrous Oxide.

Total engine and delivery modifications for different fuels are simpler than those required for gasoline engines.

Mods don't need to rely on complex or sensitive electronics.

The diesel is more efficient, on average 20%.

If the gasoline engine was more efficient, or useful, it would be used in transport trucks, container ships, trawlers, cruise ships...

By the way, I think you'll find that Nitrous Oxide is an oxidizer that promotes combustion... Not a combustible fuel in and of itself.

[BlisteredWhippet]

I defy you to MAKE DIESEL YOURSELF.

How are you going to do it? Biodiesel? Where are you going to make Methanol? Sodium Hydroxide? What kind of inputs is your crop of rapeseed or Canola going to consume? What ecological effects does your mini-industrial Agriculture have? How many "miles per acre" so you can squirt by, wasting 70% of your energy? What energy is used harvesting your crop? Cost of purifying your biodiesel feedstocks?

What this really boils down to, in my mind, is the difference in difficulty between alcohol distillation and Biodiesel reaction. The latter is far more intensive and costly. As for complexity of an engine system between SI and compression, I wouldn't say the difference is significant.

As for systemic efficiency, diesel isn't a better fuel for most applications. Thats why its not used in motorcycles and cars. The SI engine is more reliable, to my mind, and versatile. For personal use, the whole concept of efficiency is more tied to my ability to produce it, not whether my implement or vehicle is a few percentage points here or there.

The reason gasoline isn't used in heavy machinery or transport is that it doesn't have the higher BTU content of diesel, that is needed to supply the raw power for moving heavy objects. And when diesel is used for those applications, its dumped into the engine by the barrel, and efficiency one way or the other is talking about large volumes of fuel.

Once the fuel situation gets dire, there is not going to be domestic diesel for sale for your personal automobile. And when civilization collapses, no one is going to be making biodiesel. Its a much better bet, therefore, for SI, because Joe Blow was making ethanol since the 1700s.

[nocar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ne interesting quote came up with an interview with one of the Volt team. They said that they could not make the Volt's front end "beaklike" (which would have otherwise been good for aerodynamics) because of government regulations having to do with how a body reacts when you run somebody over and they slam up against the hood. Now how absurd is that?

[yesplease]

BlisteredWhippet, the only problem with ethanol is that it still requires more input than fuel oils. While making biodiesel is advantageous in unmodified diesels, filtered/dewatered SVO can be run in engines designed for it's use, as well as modified engines. Industrial processes use CI engines because historically heavy fuel oils have been cheaper than gas per BTU, and there are significant waste streams such as motor oil that can be used "on the cheap" to power CI applications where emissions laws aren't applicable.

In terms of load compared to efficiency, diesel engines are still more efficient, but they are more expensive so hybridization of gasoline engines in mass allows for similar efficiency at a higher cost. Whether or not it's cheaper than mass produced diesel applications is still up in the air, at least in the states, since diesel emissions in passenger cars have been strictly regulated so that the government can go after heavy duty diesel emissions. AFAIK there is no information stating one is better than the other overall.

[lawnchair]

I suspect that we could make a *very* efficient car that couldn't go above 45mph (70 km/h). If you could get even 1 or 2 percent of people to drive them, though, you'd have an honest-to-god Civil War on your hands.

[yesplease]

78mph on around a hp. Human powered too! Considering an electric motor/battery pack could output far more power, I think we have made extremely efficient personal vehicles that travel faster. Whether or not we use them is up to us.

[vampyregirl]

The Tesla Roadster is pretty fast and it uses no fuel. It is powered by a lithium ion pack. It has a range of 330kilometers or so before it has to be recharged and can be charged in five hours from any 220 volt outlet. And it can be yours for only 100 grand!!
Damn i wish i was rich
Oh and the new Mercedes Bluetech soon to be released will have a lithium ion pack to.
And the Porsche Cayenne can run 120km/h on electric charge alone.

Theres a whole new line of fuel efficient diesels coming out to.

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '[')url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Mz_UNRziY&feature=related]78mph on around a hp[/url].

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'T')rue noted (I ride a recumbent myself, though nothing like that). Still, he ain't going an average of 45 on real (hilly) terrain, and not for more than an hour.

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')Cyclists are generally the subject of ridicule, not violence. They are outside of influence, since what respectable driver would want to interact with a cyclist, especially a ratty looking one.

[yesplease]

Damn, that's some crap to deal with! Even if it is OT, it's still something to watch out for. After getting some insults and occasionally objects hurled at me, I started dressing down and strapped a tire iron to my rack, in case I needed to change a tire... Or something. No problems after that.

[legit]

i'm all for cycling although the penile dysfunction is slightly annoying

[yesplease]

You're doing it wrong.

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('legit', 'i')'m all for cycling although the penile dysfunction is slightly annoying