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THE Gaza Thread (merged)

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Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby DarkDawg » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 13:53:14

BBC$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')alestinians have bulldozed down part of the Gaza-Egypt border wall again, hours after Egyptian troops blocked holes recently made by militants.
Guards with riot shields stood by and then pulled out of the border areas completely as Palestinians swarmed through the newly-demolished barrier. Hundreds of thousands have surged into Egypt to buy supplies since the first breaches were made on Wednesday.

First the Berlin Wall, now this! Is there anymore evidence needed that building a wall between countries (such as the one along the US-Mexican border) is pure folly?
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 14 Apr 2009, 19:06:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Gaza Thread.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 13:57:19

Depends on the purpose and the location. The Berlin wall was to keep people from excaping into the west. Didn't work. Israel's wall is working great to keep people OUT. Our Mex border wall would if not keep them OUT, would at least slow them down.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby DarkDawg » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 14:39:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')srael's wall is working great to keep people OUT.


And it's done wonders for relations between Israels and Palestinians.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 18:20:49

And it's done wonders for relations between Israels and Palestinians.

Do you really think its hurt relations or are the Palestinian pissed they can't blow up Israelis as easily? Personally, I wouldn't give a rat's butt if relationships were not perfect if I could keep my neighbor from blowing up my kids. I think the Israelis have been very happy with the "relations" that have resulted.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 18:50:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Do you really think its hurt relations or are the Palestinian pissed they can't blow up Israelis as easily?


Or how about how millions have to sit for hours in traffic lines so that they can get to work or school or the store? Nah, that wouldn't have anything to do with it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonally, I wouldn't give a rat's butt if relationships were not perfect if I could keep my neighbor from blowing up my kids.


Yeah, who cares if the entire population on the other side is suffering greatly and will continue to suffer in the future as long as that 1:10,000 chance that your precious little child isn't hurt in any way.

In 8 years of the 2nd intifada, 705 Israeli civilians have been killed by Pals. Yet they had nearly a 100% better chance of being murdered by an Israeli during that same time span compared to by a Palestinian. Yet no Israelis have been shut in their homes to protect your little child from those potential murders.

Don't get me wrong. Terrorism is a threat. But it's way down there on the list as far as actual threats to whomever. People should do a realistic check on threats before handing over their rights or causing an entire population to suffer to take care of a "tiny" threat (per capita and with respect to other threats).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think the Israelis have been very happy with the "relations" that have resulted.


Of course. Cuz they're the Chosen People and can do whatever they want to others since God loves them so so much. They mostly don't give a shit about other people, much like Americans. 1 Israeli dead? "It's a travesty." 5.4 million Congolese die? "How dare they kill that (one) Israeli!!"
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 19:20:25

So Mekrob, your arguement against the wall is that it's an inconvenience for the Palestinians?
Why haven't all your muslim brothers poured money into Gaza and the West Bank to build stable countries (as opposed to bombs)? Why don't they head east into Jordan for jobs and food? If I want to build a wall to keep my neighbors out, and they have other options as to where they should go, why should I care? If the Palestinians are suffering so much why don't they turn on their leadership and say hey, let not blow up any more Israelis?
No Mekrob, there will never be peace until the Israelis are driven into the sea (see palestinian children's schoolbooks). And as Israel has no desire to be driven out, a wall comes up.

So Mekrob what's your solution for the Congolese? Who do you recommend goes into there to clean up that mess?
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 19:28:45

Why to build an Israeli wall:

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=30775
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 20:21:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '
')Don't get me wrong. Terrorism is a threat. But it's way down there on the list as far as actual threats to whomever. People should do a realistic check on threats before handing over their rights or causing an entire population to suffer to take care of a "tiny" threat (per capita and with respect to other threats).


I suppose you are also an advocate of taking the security checks out of airports?
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 20:26:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', '
')And as Israel has no desire to be driven out, a wall comes up.


They already WERE driven out. they GAVE GAZA BACK to the Palestinians, and look how they were repaid! And to make matters worse, the Palestinians can't even avoid killing eachother! They have to fight a civil war between Hamas and Fatah. The Palestinians have no credibility as innocent victims. The burden is squarely on them to clean up their act before getting any more concessions.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 22:24:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') suppose you are also an advocate of taking the security checks out of airports?


Airport security is a necessity to stop things like 9/11 from happening again. Frisking 8 year old girls on their way to school every day (and back) which is a mile down a road, causing them to have to leave early, is not really a necessity. But the Israelis do it any way. Make life miserable for the Palestinians, and they hope they'll give up their land easier.

Flying an airplane is not necessary because there are usually other modes of transportation and in the case where it is required, the use of aircraft is rare. Meanwhile, we're talking about spending a few hours EVERY DAY of your life having to go through the same hour+ long lines just to get to school or work. So there's a pretty major difference between the two situations.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Why haven't all your Muslim brothers poured money into Gaza and the West Bank to build stable countries (as opposed to bombs)?


On another forum, I saw someone post that they fear that the Palestinians will now be dependent upon Egypt, and that's what the Israelis want (I believe they've expressed this). The Israelis wanted to force the Palestinians to break into Egypt so that Egypt would then have to start dealing with PA.

I was really surprised by that statement. Why would anyone want a nation to be dependent upon another nation which they aren't good friends with nor have a great deal in common and have such a horrible history?

I know that what Israel does, given it's wealth and resources, is not right, but neither is the actions taken by the neighbors of the Palestinians on either side (Pals can't even own land in Lebanon).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f I want to build a wall to keep my neighbors out, and they have other options as to where they should go, why should I care?


So because Mubarak and Assad don't want them, then it's OK to let them suffer if you're an Israeli? What kind of sick mentality is that?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f the Palestinians are suffering so much why don't they turn on their leadership and say hey, let not blow up any more Israelis?


Perhaps because if, given their situation, they don't, then they fear that the Israelis will have an even easier time taking Palestinian land.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=30775

LOL. Ever actually fact-check?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1'). Israel does not appear on any maps of the world in the new PA textbooks,
while maps of Israel replace the name Israel with Palestine in all of the
new Palestinian Authority school books.

AFAIK, I'll give you that one.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2'). The new Palestinian School Books "annex" sites in Israel to Palestine.

1) Haifa has been, historically, a Palestinian city. It's not a statement of nationality, but history.

2) Palestine is not referred to as a nation, in that context, but a larger region, in which Israel is included along with Galilee, etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3'). The new Palestinian school books mention Israel only as an enemy, in
reference to "occupation of lands" in 1948 and 1967:
"There is no doubt that the Israeli occupation has a negative impact on
[Palestinian] agriculture and its export,"

1) Israel has had a negative impact upon their agriculture and export. This is more of the same idea that any idea that shows any specific group in a bad light is anti-bad group.

2) They mention Israel and Zionism multiple times in a historically neutral setting (which is how it should be). Example being History, Grade 10, Page 60-61 in which they talk about the origins of Zionism and the state of Israel. They mention the phrase "A people without land and a land without people" and the abuse that the Jews faced from Europe, which helped to prompt Zionism.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '4'). The new Palestinian school books present Zionism only as an enemy
movement:

See 3.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '5'). The new Palestinian School Books make the false claim that an "extremist
Zionist" set fire to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in 1969

Partially true. A bit misleading. A Zionist does not have to be a Jew or even an Israeli. See CUFI, which is a group of Christian Zionists. The guy hoped to bring about the coming of the Messiah by burning down the Mosque so that the Temple could be rebuilt, which is a pretty fundamental goal of Christian Zionists in America. It's quite likely that he was a Zionist as well. The Church of God, which he was a member of, is an Evangelical church.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '6'). The new Palestinian school books teach that the First Zionist Congress at
Basel fostered the Zionist State based on a secret decision of what came
came to be known as the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

Can't find in the text. They shouldn't have listed it within a 5 page range.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '8'). The new Palestinian school books teach that Palestinians must use war and
violence - especially martyrdom - to accomplish their goals:

Now this just proves that whoever "read" the Palestinian textbooks is either 1) more incompetent at Arabic than I; 2) a Zionist shill who completely distorted portions of textbooks for the gain of demonizing a population to make them even more susceptible to suffering at the hands of the Israelis.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he heroic mother, "who incessantly presents one sacrifice [fida'] after
another." (Lughatuna al-Jamila (Our Beautiful Language), Vol 2, 5th grade
textbook, p. 31).

Oh, God. That poor mother. She must be talking about the need to sacrifice one of her children after another to fight off the Israeli army and destroy Israel, right?

Nah. The passage is about how great and wonderful mothers are and how we should respect them. Let's first show the sentence that comes before to get a basic understanding of the article:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')#1605;طلوب منها ان تدمع بابتسامة،وان تشقى من المهد الى اللحد، وان تنوب عن الاب والاخ في غيابهما وان تقدم الفداء تلو الفداء دون توقف.

She is demanded to cry of a smile(?) and (labor) through her life from cradle to grave and acting on behalf of her brother and father in their absence. And she presents sacrifice after sacrifice without stopping.

How about some more passages from this lesson about violence and martyrdom, as this Israeli asserts:

From the next sentence/paragraph:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')#1607;ي (الامراة) مصنع الرجال يومَ ان عز الرجالُ، هي زيتونة فلسطين التي تضئ زيتها

The woman (/mother) is the maker of men and the olive of Palestine (compliment) that lights the oil of Palestine.

Or how about at the end:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')#1607;ي الشمعة تضئ،منارة تخلد

She is the candle that lights (the way), that lasts forever.

But it's understandable how one might confuse an entire article full of compliments to your mother and women in general as a call for the destruction of a state and rapid violence.

I think it's quite clear that this is absolute BS propaganda and it's amazing that you would fall for such stupidity and nonsense. Israel loves nothing more than little saps like you who swallow anything they say your way.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby roccman » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 23:27:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'A')irport security is a necessity to stop things like 9/11 from happening again.


Hmmm...really?

Too much grape juice huh?

(Note to mods...that is the extent of my 911 contribution for this thread...independent of how Mekrob responds.)
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby Mesuge » Sat 26 Jan 2008, 18:08:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') suppose you are also an advocate of taking the security checks out of airports?


Airport security is a necessity to stop things like 9/11 from happening again.


Please, develop and clarify your point?
Well, in case you meant that Rumsfeld and Cheney shouldn't have any access to air security "switch" that morning as they apparently did and used it to facilitate that coup I can agree on that.

In terms of the Palestine, you should always separate the issue of millions of civilans under blockade and some attacks against Izrael. By international law and practice the authorities of Izrael are responsible for the well being of occupied or otherwise impared civilian encalves. A duty which they clearly don't follow..
This is basically one giant prison camp.
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Re: Gazans breach border with Egypt...again

Unread postby mekrob » Sat 26 Jan 2008, 18:26:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lease, develop and clarify your point?


Whether or not the 9/11 attacks were aircraft or missile, foreign or domestic threat in nature is irrelevant. The fact is that dozens of airplanes have been hijacked throughout the history of aircraft which pose a threat to the passengers of those flights as well as to the people in the ground below, thus security measures must be taken seriously to prevent hijackings.

Unless you think that all hijackings are the doings of Cheney and Rumsfeld....
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Re: Fuel deliveries to Gaza resume

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 09 May 2008, 09:12:28

UN suspends Gaza food aid again
Sun May 4, 4:24 PM ET
JERUSALEM (AFP) - The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees is to suspend its food aid distribution in Gaza on Monday because of a lack of fuel caused by the Israeli blockade, a spokesman said on Sunday.
"We have exhausted our stocks of fuel, and are therefore forced to stop our food distributions to 1.5 million inhabitants in the Gaza Strip," UNWRA spokesman Chris Gunness said.
"It's the second time in a week," he added. "In the long term, the humanitarian situation is terrible." …
Aid suspended
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Photoblog: Gaza violence (WARNING:Graphic)

Unread postby Jotapay » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 13:03:54

As promised in another thread, here is a photo blog about the killing going on in the Gaza strip right now after Israel invaded. To date, ~700 Palestinians have been killed and ~12 Israelis.

I have only been able to see some excerpted pics and not the whole thing yet as it's blocked at work. I'll have to see the whole thing at home. It is HORRIFIC and you should not look click the link if death and body parts offends you. But I think this is important to see as our own mainstream media will never show you images about what is really going on there.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2008/12/2 ... slideshow/

For the record, I don't support Israel or the Palestinians because of the atrocious acts that both sides carry out. But I take a particularly dim view of the Israelis who started this bloodshed and terrorism three to four generations ago against the British, Egyptians and Palestinians. Their terrorist acts are particularly vicious.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 14 Apr 2009, 19:05:51, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Gaza Thread.
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Re: Photoblog: Gaza violence (WARNING:Graphic)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 15:20:20

Looks bad. Given how badly the war has gone for them, I'm surprised that Hamas keeps firing rockets into Israel instead of accepting the UN cease-fire.
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Re: Photoblog: Gaza violence (WARNING:Graphic)

Unread postby PrairieMule » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 16:36:35

Thank you for the warning and posting it as a link instead of a picture.
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Re: Photoblog: Gaza violence (WARNING:Graphic)

Unread postby Jotapay » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 17:12:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'T')hank you for the warning and posting it as a link instead of a picture.


There is no way I could just post those pics without a strong warning. It is really awful stuff. On the other forum where I got the link, older men who are not softies said that they couldn't look at more than just a few of them. I saw just a couple of pictures and could not look at them for more than about a second each. I honestly cannot imagine what the parents of some of these children must be feeling when they saw them. But this is reality and what some humans are going through right now as we speak.
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Re: Photoblog: Gaza violence (WARNING:Graphic)

Unread postby PrairieMule » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 18:57:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'T')hank you for the warning and posting it as a link instead of a picture.


There is no way I could just post those pics without a strong warning.


As a mods, we are always on the look out for graphic posts people use to make some point in a over the top way. This leads to complaints and further debate which is a true pain in the a@@.

Again, thank you for your courtesy and discretion.
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Haaretz: IDF admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school

Unread postby mattduke » Sat 10 Jan 2009, 10:37:24

The video was faked too. haaretz
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