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Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

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Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Falconoffury » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 01:16:46

As a Florida resident, I decided to sit through the whole debate, which was finished not long ago. I feel cheated. It was like a Mitt Romney Q&A. All candidates should have roughly equal speaking time. He said some good generalities about cutting taxes and cutting spending, but he went on later about some programs that would increase spending. Romney's specific plans contradict his general messages. He's a living contradiction.

McCain and Guliani were shoveling shit like always. McCain wants to conquer the world, and Guliani sounds the most Bush-like of all the candidates where the economy is concerned. He wants to just keep increasing the deficit and maintain our dependence on China. They are both "status quo" all the way.

Ron Paul was in top form as always, but he got by far the fewest questions. He's the only one who mentioned inflation problems. They asked him if ending social security was a good idea right after stating that 3.5 million Floridians depend on it. What a disgusting attempt to sabotage his answer. Good thing Ron Paul pointed out that social security is a failed system and young people should be allowed to get out of it.

Huckabee I just can't figure out. He has a few things right, but a few things very very wrong. Yes, the poor have it rough these days, but he fails to grasp the reasons why. He almost sounds like a Democrat when it comes to social programs.

There is just no hope. We have one smart guy, and none of the other candidates even come close. It seems like I get more depressed with every passing debate.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby greenworm » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 01:29:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')He said some good generalities about cutting taxes and cutting spending


Of course he did, it is in his name. Mitt Romney. tRim Money. It's all kind of preplanned, I would ignore it.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby jedinvest » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 05:29:30

What's to debate? A republican won't get elected in 2008.

Peak Oil doesn't have anything on American politics. We would self-destruct anyway and may still do so before peak-oil even makes itself felt.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 11:38:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ood thing Ron Paul pointed out that social security is a failed system and young people should be allowed to get out of it.


It's not a failed system. Show me the data. Do away with FICA income cap (tax all earnings) and problem solved. You peeps are so way misinformed. Right wing dibble.

Glad that nutz case don't stand a chance of winning. :razz:
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Falconoffury » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 14:44:41

There may be more than one way to solve social security, but it is failing in its current state, and needs change. I agree that people should be allowed to get out of the social security system if they choose. Choices are always preferable.

Mitt Romney said he might have to raise the age that people will be allowed to start recieving social security. That's certainly the wrong direction to solving the system.
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 15:50:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'T')here may be more than one way to solve social security, but it is failing in its current state, and needs change. I agree that people should be allowed to get out of the social security system if they choose. Choices are always preferable.

Mitt Romney said he might have to raise the age that people will be allowed to start recieving social security. That's certainly the wrong direction to solving the system.


I disagree.

If you raise the retirement age by a year or two, you delay the bankruptcy of the system by many years.

That would give people time to save money and allow the interest on their IRAs to accumulate.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby jedinvest » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 16:30:09

Tyler,
What do you do when the unemployment rate sky-rockets? Do you still want senior citizens looking for jobs??

Peak-Oil and Social Security Retirement don't seem very congruous to me. I do expect the federal government to be bankrupt at some point and social security will be a sideshow.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 18:34:27

Social security has always been a pyramid scheme, based on the hope that our population would continually increase. The only way it's been kept afloat as long as it has is due to immigration.
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Falconoffury » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 18:44:35

Tyler, pushing back the day of reckoning is not a solution. It only makes the day of reckoning that much worse. The rise of our debt-based economy has all been about pushing back the day of reckoning. The recent interest rate cuts and 100 billion dollar economic boost package that Bush has endorsed are some of the biggest examples.

I say let it crash now. It will be best for us in the long run. All the faster we can get the crash over with and starting picking up the pieces and building a system that works.

The biggest complaint I hear about Ron Paul is that he is too extreme in the things he wants to cut. Well, extreme measures are needed to save us from the mess we are in.
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 25 Jan 2008, 19:36:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'S')ocial security has always been a pyramid scheme, based on the hope that our population would continually increase. The only way it's been kept afloat as long as it has is due to immigration.


A shrinking population can still support social security if the retirement age is raised high enough.

Think about it.

If people are collecting from age 65-80 they will take more out of the system than if they are collecting from age 70-80.

In the worse case scenario, it postpones the inevitable collapse of the system for a decade or two.

In the best case scenario, it makes the system solvent indefinitely.

We would only have a problem if life spans continued to grow into the 80s, 90s, 100s. But I don't see that happening, do you?
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Re: Rupublican Debate, what a Farce!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 26 Jan 2008, 22:01:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')In the best case scenario, it makes the system solvent indefinitely.


If your highest aim is to make social security "solvent" then there are all sorts of benefit cuts that could be made.

But what is the point of having social security if the ROI for Americans on their social security taxes is worse then it would be if they put the same amount of money into a private scheme?

The ROI on SS taxes is already very low for current workers (and the ROI is negative for many workers), and making future benefit cuts just makes the ROI on social security taxes worse and worse.
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