Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby DarkDawg » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 14:25:37

Bloomberg$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') U.S. panel created to recommend ways to fund road construction plans to propose that federal gasoline taxes rise as much as 40 cents per gallon over five years, a person with direct knowledge of the plan said.

The group will suggest that the current tax of 18.4 cents per gallon increase by 5 cents to 8 cents annually and be indexed to inflation after the five years, said the person, who didn't want to be named before the report is made public.


That's YOUR $286.5 Billion hard at work friends. And yup, that's the best they came up with. :(
User avatar
DarkDawg
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Saratoga County, NY

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby steam_cannon » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 14:45:35

It's a big amount, but the governments are getting desperate for money. People haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure and poor economy is cutting the tax base. So just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up. And as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest. And as you know, gasoline taxes are regressive meaning the poor pay the most...

Image
Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')ndexed to inflation after the five years
Shows how much confidence they have in the stability of the dollar...
User avatar
steam_cannon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 04:00:00
Location: MA

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Popeman » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 16:10:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's a big amount, but the governments are getting desperate for money. People haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure and poor economy is cutting the tax base. So just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up. And as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest. And as you know, gasoline taxes are regressive meaning the poor pay the most...


Typical socialist garbage.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure


Oh, that's a great way of looking at it. That's the way the socialists always think - "if we just had more taxes."

There's never any consideration given to the thought that, "we have plenty in taxes, it's just wasted in large part on unnecessary garbage and government inefficiencies."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up.



Another communist value. The bizarre belief that giving government more money will allow us to "keep what we've got."

If you consider for a second how bizarre this type of illogical, socialist, nanny-govt tripe is, it will truly stagger you.

"$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest.


Always the mark of the dyed in the wool communist, the allusion to the "poor getting hit the hardest."

First, the poor hardly pay any taxes at all. Sure, 6% sales tax and a bit here and there, but overall, a "poor" person making 20k a year probably doesn't spend 2k in obligatory taxes.


The guy who is making 200 grand a year, on the other hand, is probably paying 50 grand in obligatory taxes.

But socialists like the previous poster look at this and think that the guy making 200 grand a year is "rich" and the 50 to 2 ratio is "regressive".

Hilarious and sad. "Regressive". What a loaded bullshit word.

So the communists solution is to take more money from the guy making 200k. That would be "progressive."

And every person paying the same tax for a gallon of gas is "regressive", according to the communists.

There's no allowance for the fact that I busted my ass for 10 years going to school, lived a clean life, work 70 hours a week.

No.

There's no consideration that the guy making 20 drinks like a fish, wastes his money on garbage, and has never done more than the bare minimum to get by.

No.

Instead, there are only communists who prance around with their oversimplified labels and who think it would be "progressive" to make me pay 10 times more for a gallon of gas so that slob man's slovenly life style can be subsidized by my hard work.

The good news is, communists are always proven wrong in the end, because, once they have sufficiently beaten down the achievers of the world, they are left holding the hands of all the slobs, who just look at them and ask, "what now."

"Get the hell out of my way."

Of course the bad news is that guys like me have to get gouged by those democratically elected leaders of the "not my fault" crowd.
User avatar
Popeman
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 17 Jan 2008, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Tyler_JC » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 16:28:02

I'm fine with higher gasoline taxes.

It will encourage people to conserve and I'd rather have money go to the US government than foreign state-owned oil companies (Aramco and friends)

I'm no tax and spend liberal, but I do recognize the need for a functioning infrastructure to foster economic development and trade.

Alternatively, we can eliminate the 10% income tax bracket and raise gas taxes by a buck or two. This could be arranged so that it was revenue neutral and would be a big win for poor people who made good decisions about their transportation expenditures.
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby mattduke » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 16:38:34

I wish the government had never built the interstate highway system. How much differently would we have organized our society without it?
User avatar
mattduke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3591
Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Kingcoal » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 16:40:42

The Iraq conflict has cost us God knows how much, estimates are between .5 and 1.5 Trillion. Getting out of Iraq would save enough to build a world class public transit system. Taxes my ass, we need to quit spending money on stupid stuff and spend it on building infrastructure.
"That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
User avatar
Kingcoal
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed 29 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Bas » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 16:41:56

I'm glad "commie" Europe raised gas taxes to 7/8dollars a gallon at the pump over the past 20 years; it has left this continent in a pretty good position to deal with the first stages of peakoil with an adapted economy, overal efficient car fleet and mass transit.

On the other hand; due to rising oil prices, European governments have stopped raising the taxes on gas pretty much; It seems too late to start a strategy like that now with gasoline prices already rising faster than in Europe over the last 20 years, and would hit poor working families extra hard; so much for "socialism", popeman (are you another one of those American style Anarchists?) , seems indeed that this tax proposal is more about funding rich boy Bush's pet war projects.
Bas
 

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Twilight » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:02:35

Communist governments don't tax, they own all means of production and it is their money already.

Socialists on the other hand, they do tax.

Wise is the man who knows the difference.
Twilight
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Fri 02 Mar 2007, 04:00:00

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Kingcoal » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:02:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') wish the government had never built the interstate highway system. How much differently would we have organized our society without it?


We would still be using the inter-state train system for transport of goods and people in that case. The interstate highway system amounts to a huge subsity for the trucking industry. After all, the extra tolls and highway taxes they pay are a tiny fraction of the costs to build and maintain the highway system.
"That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
User avatar
Kingcoal
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed 29 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby steam_cannon » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:15:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Popeman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's a big amount, but the governments are getting desperate for money. People haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure and poor economy is cutting the tax base. So just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up. And as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest. And as you know, gasoline taxes are regressive meaning the poor pay the most...


Typical socialist garbage.
Regressive taxes are a normal part of the capitalist system and discussing their implications is not the same as pledging ones allegiance to Lenin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

Regarding the governments problems with a shrinking tax base, the crashing housing market and the recession are causing these shortfalls. And one could reasonably argue that policies such as cutting taxes during war time are also contributing to the shortfalls we are seeing.

A common story these days
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the first time in its history, the total assessed value of property on Long Island is going down -- which means the average taxpayer now faces a property-tax increase to make up for lost revenues.

Officials say lower home-sale prices, a wave of challenges to assessments and new rules removing some property from the tax rolls have shrunk the total value of taxable property. To compensate, county officials say they must raise tax rates, resulting in higher tax bills for a majority of taxpayers whose assessments have not changed.

http://tinyurl.com/2krany
This is a problem hitting local and big government, the housing crisis is cutting into expected revenues. Money for road repairs and other city services isn't there. So cities and governments must now look for ways to raise funds or to close roads and projects.
Last edited by steam_cannon on Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:47:55, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
steam_cannon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 04:00:00
Location: MA
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby LoneSnark » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:40:34

Too true, local governments have always been starved of funds. The solution we can all agree on seems obvious: The Federal Government elimintes its own gas tax, returning the 18.4 cents per gallon to state governments for their infrastructure needs.

Then, to cover the shortfall in revenue, the Federal Government can make up the whole shortfall just by eliminating federal agricultural subsidies. Anything left over can be saved by not invading Iraq.

There, does everyone agree?
User avatar
LoneSnark
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby steam_cannon » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 17:49:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'T')oo true, local governments have always been starved of funds. The solution we can all agree on seems obvious: The Federal Government elimintes its own gas tax, returning the 18.4 cents per gallon to state governments for their infrastructure needs.

Then, to cover the shortfall in revenue, the Federal Government can make up the whole shortfall just by eliminating federal agricultural subsidies. Anything left over can be saved by not invading Iraq.

There, does everyone agree?
I'm all for balancing budgets! :-D
User avatar
steam_cannon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 04:00:00
Location: MA
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby joeltrout » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 20:32:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', ' ')I'm all for balancing budgets! :-D


I agree. Who thought it could be so simple yet the government finance offices can't grasp the concept.

Joeltrout
joeltrout
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby vision-master » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 22:01:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Popeman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's a big amount, but the governments are getting desperate for money. People haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure and poor economy is cutting the tax base. So just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up. And as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest. And as you know, gasoline taxes are regressive meaning the poor pay the most...


Typical socialist garbage.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople haven't been taxed enough to keep up our infrastructure


Oh, that's a great way of looking at it. That's the way the socialists always think - "if we just had more taxes."

There's never any consideration given to the thought that, "we have plenty in taxes, it's just wasted in large part on unnecessary garbage and government inefficiencies."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o just to keep what we've got, taxes will have to go up.



Another communist value. The bizarre belief that giving government more money will allow us to "keep what we've got."

If you consider for a second how bizarre this type of illogical, socialist, nanny-govt tripe is, it will truly stagger you.

"$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd as is popular in the US, most of these tax hikes will be regressive hitting the poor hardest.


Always the mark of the dyed in the wool communist, the allusion to the "poor getting hit the hardest."

First, the poor hardly pay any taxes at all. Sure, 6% sales tax and a bit here and there, but overall, a "poor" person making 20k a year probably doesn't spend 2k in obligatory taxes.


The guy who is making 200 grand a year, on the other hand, is probably paying 50 grand in obligatory taxes.

But socialists like the previous poster look at this and think that the guy making 200 grand a year is "rich" and the 50 to 2 ratio is "regressive".

Hilarious and sad. "Regressive". What a loaded bullshit word.

So the communists solution is to take more money from the guy making 200k. That would be "progressive."

And every person paying the same tax for a gallon of gas is "regressive", according to the communists.

There's no allowance for the fact that I busted my ass for 10 years going to school, lived a clean life, work 70 hours a week.

No.

There's no consideration that the guy making 20 drinks like a fish, wastes his money on garbage, and has never done more than the bare minimum to get by.

No.

Instead, there are only communists who prance around with their oversimplified labels and who think it would be "progressive" to make me pay 10 times more for a gallon of gas so that slob man's slovenly life style can be subsidized by my hard work.

The good news is, communists are always proven wrong in the end, because, once they have sufficiently beaten down the achievers of the world, they are left holding the hands of all the slobs, who just look at them and ask, "what now."

"Get the hell out of my way."

Of course the bad news is that guys like me have to get gouged by those democratically elected leaders of the "not my fault" crowd.

When the hard times hit, you will be one of those nutz cases to stay clear of. I hope you have a nice compound in remote Idaho. :razz:
vision-master
 
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby seldom_seen » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 22:42:47

Will the gas tax cancel out the new economic "stimulus package?"

I mean "they" want to stimulate me, and then tax me. I'm starting to feel like a dirty french whore.
seldom_seen
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2229
Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby Tyler_JC » Thu 17 Jan 2008, 22:48:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'W')ill the gas tax cancel out the new economic "stimulus package?"

I mean "they" want to stimulate me, and then tax me. I'm starting to feel like a dirty french whore.


Even if the higher gas taxes is revenue neutral because of the stimulus package, there is a way to make yourself a winner.

Conserve gasoline. :)
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby alokin » Fri 18 Jan 2008, 00:49:01

US gas taxes are one of the lowest in the developed world.
Gas taxes must not be used to build highways it could be a climate tax as well. If the US gov. have demanded had much higher gas taxes, the US car industry would be in a better position worldwide as their fleet would be more economic.

Popeman, you Communist- Capitalist world view is incredible simplistic!
Every state needs taxes because there are always means which are owned as a community like railways roads bridges hospitals schools.
You would really prefer taking your money and share it with no one and caring only for yourself and you family? Hope that no one gets in trouble!
User avatar
alokin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby cube » Fri 18 Jan 2008, 01:38:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') wish the government had never built the interstate highway system. How much differently would we have organized our society without it?
Be careful for what you wish for because you might actually get! If you know what I mean. :P

Asphalt, which is derived from heavy oil, is a major component of making a freeway. A lot of people forget that a rise in the price of oil is actually a 2 hit combo:
1) cost of fuel
2) cost to repave the damn freeways!
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby MrBill » Fri 18 Jan 2008, 07:07:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') wish the government had never built the interstate highway system. How much differently would we have organized our society without it?
Be careful for what you wish for because you might actually get! If you know what I mean. :P

Asphalt, which is derived from heavy oil, is a major component of making a freeway. A lot of people forget that a rise in the price of oil is actually a 2 hit combo:
1) cost of fuel
2) cost to repave the damn freeways!


Yes, but a heavy truck causes 35 times more damage to the road as a passenger car. And adding extra axels to spread the weight hampers fuel efficiency. Getting trucks off the road and freight onto rail would solve both problems.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: Panel to suggest 40 cent gas tax increase

Postby MrBill » Fri 18 Jan 2008, 07:22:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alokin', '
')Popeman, you Communist- Capitalist world view is incredible simplistic!

Every state needs taxes because there are always means which are owned as a community like railways roads bridges hospitals schools.

You would really prefer taking your money and share it with no one and caring only for yourself and you family? Hope that no one gets in trouble!


I do not want to take side is this debate, but we need to respect a diversity of opinion on peak oil dot com.

Unfortunately, as simplistic as Popeman's Communist-Capitalist argument is, I can empathize with his sentiment. The ever constant litany that taxes are regressive and hurt the poor the most is sadly a way overstated argument.

As Popeman correctly points out - and Tyler_JC's tax calculations last week proved - is that the lower income brackets hardly pay little if any taxes on their income.

Sadly, we (collectively) have a form of government that on the whole is too big, too expensive and unsustainable. That may be by fighting needless foreign wars or by wealth transfers from its most productive citizens to its least productive ones.

Government needs to be streamlined and rationalized at all levels. And we have to end this sense of entitlement that we can somehow get something for nothing. Whether it is pensions that we have not contributed (fully) to or hurricane disaster relief just because we chose to build a beachhouse on a sandbank and no sane company would insure such a risk.

Because I can guarantee you one thing - and I am not American so really its none of my business - but America is doing an Argentina, and there is no one that is going to be there to bail them out. Then you will not have your infrastructure - the real job of government - and you will not have those social programs either. Then watch the poor really suffer! ; - )
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Next

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron