PeakOil is You
Domestic consumption of oil producing nations.
Re: Per Capita Oil Use by Various Nations
by namenick » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 16:22:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'n')ame nick,
just because China will not be able to run all of their new cars (the subject in pup55's post) does not mean that we will nor does it assume that we will win any resource wars.
It just means a) the Chinese won't and b) this will make them mad. One need assume nothing to come to that conclusion.
There are many ways that could work out (a shooting resource war(s) being just one) but it would be hard to assert such an eventuality with the same certitude as the fact that there are limits to the supply of fossil fuels.
just because China will not be able to run all of their new cars (the subject in pup55's post) does not mean that we will nor does it assume that we will win any resource wars.
It just means a) the Chinese won't and b) this will make them mad. One need assume nothing to come to that conclusion.
There are many ways that could work out (a shooting resource war(s) being just one) but it would be hard to assert such an eventuality with the same certitude as the fact that there are limits to the supply of fossil fuels.
Well considering that you wish to pursue the issue further, I would just add that there is no certainty that the Chinese will get mad because they don't have enough gas to run all their new cars. I think it much more likely that the Americans will get mad for that reason and the Chinese will largely not worry about it too much because they live without cars as it is. They're more likely to move around on vehicles which get 150 miles to the gallon or better. So in essence I see the US cutting back slightly in the next 10 years as the supply of oil is kept constant through oil wars and the Chinese upping their consumption to a small degree as they consolidate their future supply through countries which the US has alienated. I see the US has just closed a deal with the Saudis for billions of dollars worth of weaponry so there's little danger of losing them I would guess.
Really and truly cur, I am very interested in knowing what you Americans see for the next 10 years or so. I don't see drastic cutbacks on energy consumption but more likely a levelling off through necessity as the oil wars and political maneuvering bring in less of the requirement and sustaining the current level of consumption becomes difficult. That alone means huge changes for the US as more gluttonous consumers demand more. Those who can afford it will continue to drive their SUV's while those who can't afford it will have to make more sacrifices. After all, don't most Americans already think that the poor don't deserve to be looked after by the rich?
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Re: Per Capita Oil Use by Various Nations
by Bas » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 16:26:58
I cannot think of why Holland is so high on that list (there must be a mistake?) our distances are tiny and so are the cars, and we have loads of bicycles and good public transport on top of that we have higher gastaxes than the UK (I believe the highest in the world even?)
Probably it's because Rotterdam is a major petrochemical hub in which alot of oil is delivered and refined for re-export to Germany and also the US. I presume that the same goes for Belgium through Antwerp and that the real per capita consumption in both countries is much lower than suggested by the list and probably close to what other W-European countries consume.
Probably it's because Rotterdam is a major petrochemical hub in which alot of oil is delivered and refined for re-export to Germany and also the US. I presume that the same goes for Belgium through Antwerp and that the real per capita consumption in both countries is much lower than suggested by the list and probably close to what other W-European countries consume.
- Bas
Re: Per Capita Oil Use by Various Nations
by namenick » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 16:28:13
Pixie- I appreciate your efforts but I fear that it is a futile task to try to figure out who the top 1 billion consumers are. I think you have succeeded in answering the question in the best possible manner already. For example, it is not really individuals in all cases who are sucking up the oil, it is industry in many cases and how would we ever be able to pin their consumption on individuals? Try to pin it on the individuals who benefit from those industries?
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Re: Per Capita Oil Use by Various Nations
by lateStarter » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 16:40:57
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pixie', ' ')By 2022, we can expect to have to cut our oil use by at least a third.
It's not that we can't live that way, but do we know how?
It's not that we can't live that way, but do we know how?
Just follow the EU example.
People in EU countries have a very high quality of life but use much less oil. A good place for the US to start copying the EU would be by constructing a modern electric high speed train system connecting major American cities, and by building more light rail within the cities.
I agree with you that people in the EU have a much higher quality of life than folks in the US. Copy all you want, but it won't work in the US. Who in the US wants to take a high speed train from Cleveland to Memphis? Who is going to ride light rail in Baltimore?
You are just too spread out for this to happen unless the US evolves into a number of semi-autonomous regions. It was great while it lasted... Actually, I think that what you are suggesting will happen eventually by default (unless the US just started too late).
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
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Re: Per Capita Oil Use by Various Nations
by Pixie » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 17:28:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('namenick', 'P')ixie- I appreciate your efforts but I fear that it is a futile task to try to figure out who the top 1 billion consumers are. I think you have succeeded in answering the question in the best possible manner already. For example, it is not really individuals in all cases who are sucking up the oil, it is industry in many cases and how would we ever be able to pin their consumption on individuals? Try to pin it on the individuals who benefit from those industries?
I agree. Within a society, not everyone benefits equally, but it is generally the society that uses the oil as a unit. Individual use is only a small piece of the puzzle. Besides, even that individual use is somewhat dictated by the society. Whether you are a top carnivore or a lowly peon, you use the resources and the system that exists around you. It takes an act of society to change that system.
Just another tofu-munching bike-riding Rambo(/Rambette)
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