[JohnDenver]

We all know the reality of peak oil:

1) With a population of 6.4 billion, we've drastically overshot the carrying capacity of the earth. Therefore, most of these people -- optimistically 85%, but more realistically 95% -- will have to perish shortly in the big "die-off". This outcome is completely unavoidable, and there is NO SOLUTION. NOTHING can stop the big die-off from happening.

2) Therefore we must: (insert agenda here).

Step 2 is the problem here. Why should I do anything, or buy into anybody's agenda, if I'm going to die?

Here's one example: Julian Darley says we need to cut our energy consumption by 50 to 90%, immediately. That would be a great idea, Julian, except 95% of us are going to die no matter what we do, because there is NO SOLUTION. So why should we do what you (or anybody) says? We're all going to starve to death anyway.

Kofi Annan goes on TV and says: "Due to peak oil, it is completely certain that 95% of you are going to die shortly. Okay, now here is what I would like you all to do to facilitate this difficult transition." You expect all the corpses-to-be to pitch in and help?

[MikeB]

edit

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'W')e all know the reality of peak oil:

1) With a population of 6.4 billion, we've drastically overshot the carrying capacity of the earth. Therefore, most of these people -- optimistically 85%, but more realistically 95% -- will have to perish shortly in the big "die-off". This outcome is completely unavoidable, and there is NO SOLUTION. NOTHING can stop the big die-off from happening.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I')f anyone is going to die, it's going to be fat Westerners who die of heart attacks because they have to ride a bicycle for the first time in their lives, instead of a terroristsic SUV.

[mgibbons19]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'S')o I think the big die-off scenario is a bit over the top. If anyone is going to die, it's going to be fat Westerners who die of heart attacks because they have to ride a bicycle for the first time in their lives, instead of a terroristsic SUV.

[marek]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'W')e all know the reality of peak oil:

1) With a population of 6.4 billion, we've drastically overshot the carrying capacity of the earth. Therefore, most of these people -- optimistically 85%, but more realistically 95% -- will have to perish shortly in the big "die-off". This outcome is completely unavoidable, and there is NO SOLUTION. NOTHING can stop the big die-off from happening.

[Taskforce_Unity]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'W')e all know the reality of peak oil:

Millions of people in the third world have been living without oil for decades (or they've never used oil in the first place), and they cope very well. They produce their own food. They don't have cars. They have been surviving all along.

So I think the big die-off scenario is a bit over the top. If anyone is going to die, it's going to be fat Westerners who die of heart attacks because they have to ride a bicycle for the first time in their lives, instead of a terroristsic SUV.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'W')hy should I do anything, or buy into anybody's agenda, if I'm going to die?

[clv101]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '
')Let's not forget that every single American consumes as much oil as one hundred third world people.

Millions of people in the third world have been living without oil for decades (or they've never used oil in the first place), and they cope very well. They produce their own food. They don't have cars. They have been surviving all along.

So I think the big die-off scenario is a bit over the top. If anyone is going to die, it's going to be fat Westerners who die of heart attacks because they have to ride a bicycle for the first time in their lives, instead of a terroristsic SUV.

[MikeB]

edit

[threadbear]

Mike B, That is one of the most hopeful posts I've read. Bravo. You don't take vacation, because, in a sense, life becomes a vacation (at least away from all the crappy vices a consumer lifestyle buys you)

The way you're living your life is how I see the future for most people. There's a lot of agribusiness out there, reliant on huge export markets in a globalized cheap energy economy, that will go bust. Plenty of room for many, many people to buy up plots and farm for themselves in a sustainable way. Hey, what do you drive? My husband drives an 87 honda civic. It's back seat is torn, the sky light leaks, so it's a bit moldy inside, but it works and gets great mileage.

[MikeB]

edit

[Such]

I've been driving a 1991 Honda CRX HF model... 154 K miles on it... and the original clutch (yeah, its veeeery soft). Works like a charm... I've only dumped about $1000 into it for repairs since 1999 when I bought it. Best of all... it still gets me 47 miles per gallon. closer to 50 on the highway.

I get lots of offers from people looking to buy it... i guess the "low rider" kids all like these things.

[Tyler_JC]

Has anyone here heard of the UN vaccination programs? They go into 3rd world countries and give vaccines to children.
What happens when the UN isn't there to protect these dirty, overcrowded people from disease?
What happens when grain and other foodstuffs aren't given to them in times of famine?
What happens when global warming turns the savana into a desert?

The third world is more overpopulated than most people here want to believe. 2 Billion people could die in Africa/Asia/South America before anyone in Europe or the USA even notices.

Yes, some fat Westerners will die, but a fat guy can live with half the calories. Try cutting the food rations of an Ethiopian...

[0mar]

Much of the 3rd world is propped up by food supplies which are derived from pesticides and fertilizers, both of which consume limited supplies of oil and natural gas.

[clv101]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'H')as anyone here heard of the UN vaccination programs? They go into 3rd world countries and give vaccines to children.
What happens when the UN isn't there to protect these dirty, overcrowded people from disease?
What happens when grain and other foodstuffs aren't given to them in times of famine?
What happens when global warming turns the savana into a desert?

[Tyler_JC]

The UN stopped small pox with its "end small pox program." Imagine if they hadn't. Tens of millions of people would currently not be alive. That number could be in the hundreds of millions. I think the number might be larger than "an incredibly small proportion." But I could be wrong, I don't really know.

Global warming will turn the semi-arid regions into deserts. East Texas will look like West Texas. Global warming (climate change) and peak oil are part of the same thing. The excessive burning of fossil fuels is leading to both. I tend to put them in the same mental basket. What? I'm lazy .

[lorenzo]

I'm calculating how much oil we would save per year if we stopped flying jumbojets full of Kiwis from New Zealand to Europe and America.

I'll be back when I got some numbers.

(I'm only doing Kiwis today, tomorrow we'll do fresh cut flowers from Kenya - arriving in jumbojets as well).

[fastbike]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I')'m calculating how much oil we would save per year if we stopped flying jumbojets full of Kiwis from New Zealand to Europe and America.

[Liamj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'M')uch of the 3rd world is propped up by food supplies which are derived from pesticides and fertilizers, both of which consume limited supplies of oil and natural gas.