[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') believe your love of place is misplaced.

[LoneSnark]

I liked the video; it was very entertaining.

Fight on culture warrior, someday you will succeed in blocking out reality and will be able to live safe and sound in your own little world without all those bad men sabotaging you and your persecuted white friends.

[Tyler_JC]

I'm sorry but in the United States, you do not have the right to tell other people who they can sell their land to.

If my neighbor wants to paint his house purple, I can't do a darn thing about it.

And I would rather live in a world with purple houses than a world ruled by tyrannical neighborhood associations.

If some farmer wants to sell his land to a rich city man who wants to play farmer for a few weeks a year, how does it "destroy your neighborhood"?

The farmer is happy. The city man gets to live out his dream of retiring on a farm. Your town gets tax revenue without the cost of educating a real farmer's children.

I just don't feel the need to tell my neighbors how to live.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')'m sorry but in the United States, you do not have the right to tell other people who they can sell their land to.

If my neighbor wants to paint his house purple, I can't do a darn thing about it.

And I would rather live in a world with purple houses than a world ruled by tyrannical neighborhood associations.

If some farmer wants to sell his land to a rich city man who wants to play farmer for a few weeks a year, how does it "destroy your neighborhood"?

The farmer is happy. The city man gets to live out his dream of retiring on a farm. Your town gets tax revenue without the cost of educating a real farmer's children.

I just don't feel the need to tell my neighbors how to live.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') just don't feel the need to tell my neighbors how to live.

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e just stopped a company that planned on removing a hill just north of here for the sand) or wants to put in a landfill

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e just stopped a company that planned on removing a hill just north of here for the sand) or wants to put in a landfill

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hile I was not part of the "block the sand mine" organization, they accomplished it by using our zoning laws. In other posts you have said that we should use local laws to preserve what we would like to preserve. You have blamed the majority of pollution on poor oversight of local government. If, in this one instance, local government reflected the will of local people in zoning laws, is that a bad thing?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hile I was not part of the "block the sand mine" organization, they accomplished it by using our zoning laws. In other posts you have said that we should use local laws to preserve what we would like to preserve. You have blamed the majority of pollution on poor oversight of local government. If, in this one instance, local government reflected the will of local people in zoning laws, is that a bad thing?

[LoneSnark]

So you are comfortable living under a democracy where the majority can do whatever it wants, from summary executions to theft? It will not stop there; they have taken control over the mine owners property, yours is next.

I am with the founding fathers, democracy can be every bit the tyranny of a king or emperor, all that changes is the rhetoric. And I do not believe I should need to win a popularity contest in order to feed my family.

I guess you have never found yourself in the minority; I hope your luck holds out. I suspect it wont judging by your comments relating to the influx of Chicago yuppies gaining voting rights in your local government. I sure hope you have not doing anything to annoy them, lest they use the untemperred hand of 'local democracy' to smash you.

[wisconsin_cur]

1. you have a very difficult time letting any one else have the last word. How are your relationships working out? I might be able to recomend a good therapist.

2. You cannot have it both ways. You have decried in past posts that the main culprit for pollution is poor local governance. Local governance works to protect us from each other and, yes, this means a limit to property rights. Zoning laws are a good thing, they give me a voice in my community and the type of community it will become.

Without democracy than only the moneyed interests have a say.

3. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o you are comfortable living under a democracy where the majority can do whatever it wants, from summary executions to theft?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'S')o you are comfortable living under a democracy where the majority can do whatever it wants, from summary executions to theft? It will not stop there; they have taken control over the mine owners property, yours is next.

I am with the founding fathers, democracy can be every bit the tyranny of a king or emperor, all that changes is the rhetoric. And I do not believe I should need to win a popularity contest in order to feed my family.

I guess you have never found yourself in the minority; I hope your luck holds out. I suspect it wont judging by your comments relating to the influx of Chicago yuppies gaining voting rights in your local government. I sure hope you have not doing anything to annoy them, lest they use the untemperred hand of 'local democracy' to smash you.

[wisconsin_cur]

I would be happy with the absence of the "Enlightened Dictatorship of Corporations."


While we have strayed it does still relate. When it is no longer in the interests of corporations (i.e. the profit margin gets too small or goes negative), those in rural areas will be cut off from the resources that we now take for granted (ng, electric whatever). LS came back with the idea that this would never happen and then the conversation went where ever it is that we have just been.

I can understand the idea of regional pricing. It has a "common sense" and fair play appeal. I'm just saying that there is a balancing interest in not alienating an already alienated portion of the population. A portion that knows what Edwards means when he talks about two Americas (I guess I'm pulling for McCain and don't like Edwards for a pluriform of reasons so don't try to stick with too harsh a label) and already feels like it is looked down upon by other interests.

Regional price may make economic sense but it does not necessarily make political sense, arguably it does not make moral sense.

Is there anything beyond the market? Can any alliegence trump it or deny it the hegemony that it seeks? I say "yes, lots of things."

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2'). You cannot have it both ways. You have decried in past posts that the main culprit for pollution is poor local governance. Local governance works to protect us from each other and, yes, this means a limit to property rights. Zoning laws are a good thing, they give me a voice in my community and the type of community it will become.

Without democracy than only the moneyed interests have a say.

[wisconsin_cur]

And, incurring the sin of repeating what I said in an earlier post, that is all well and good until the price descepancy has the same effect as just turning off the supply. And with that I will leave you to the last word to say whatever you want, since you seem to need it, as long as you do not say anything bad about my mother it is yours.

[LoneSnark]

Hold on a second; I am still spouting new concepts at you! You cannot run away yet! I checked, I have not said this before in this thread!

The absolute price differential between urban and rural should be largely unaffected by the availability of the resource. As a matter of fact, as the base price of the resource (such as natural gas) increases the differential between urban and rural should fall as a percentage of the final price (which should be resource price plus delivery costs).

This is the same reason deep-sea oil drilling does not become unprofitable as oil prices rise: the term 'costs' includes many things which are unaffected by the change being made (higher prices for oil or ng).

In this instance, the only extra costs associated with supplying natural gas to a rural community verse an urban community is up front costs for the miles of gas lines divided over fewer customers, which in this case are already in the ground and are thus unaffected by the shift, and the labor for workers to repair breaks and blockages of the extra pipe. All other costs (billing, customer service, the natural gas itself) fall equally upon rural and urban customers alike.

Unless I have missed anything, if natural gas prices double then the urban/rural price differential as a percentage of the base rate should halve.

So, mathematically, do you see why your conclusion is mistaken? Feel free to respond; I have no interest in the last word, I just for some silly reason think I can get across this concept, even if I cannot any other.

[wisconsin_cur]

Awwwwhhh I'm wanted.

Regarding ng, you are probably right. At least I know of no reason why you would be wrong.

I am guilty of blurring the line between the original story (natural gas) and other inputs (electric and LP).

Small towns have access to ng, but if you are not in town it is LP and that is trucked in so the prices would continue to esculate.

Our power lines are above ground. the concern with them is the replacement costs due to theft that is often seen during severe economic down turns and, as margins shrink due to ability to pay, routine replacement costs make certain areas less profitable or noticibly unprofitable.

Then we will see the same type of corporate responsibility we see when insurance companies begin to loose money, they find ways to stop providing the "service."

[LoneSnark]

Perhaps. But as with stealing horses in Texas, I suspect the locals will find a way of dealing with power line thieves, which have the unfortunate problem of instantly notifying the people they are robbing long before they can escape with their stolen steel/aluminum lines and transformers (I can imagine people running outside with their shotguns whenever the lights go out).

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')
Regarding ng, you are probably right. At least I know of no reason why you would be wrong.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'P')erhaps. But as with stealing horses in Texas, I suspect the locals will find a way of dealing with power line thieves, which have the unfortunate problem of instantly notifying the people they are robbing long before they can escape with their stolen steel/aluminum lines and transformers (I can imagine people running outside with their shotguns whenever the lights go out).