$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'E')ven with a relatively mild winter here (in southern Massachusetts), it costs well over $1000 per month to keep the house warm.
It's not a large house by any strech of the imagination (just a basic two story cape house of about 2200 square feet) and it is very well insulated.
But with heating oil at $3/gallon, it's become a money trap.
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Why is oil space heating so popular in the Northeast USA?
Re: Why is oil space heating so popular in the Northeast USA
by Tyler_JC » Thu 10 Jan 2008, 00:44:43
$1000+ a month? You're getting a 300 gallon tank filled monthly? Something seems wrong. Our two-story is about 1800 square feet, in central MA, also well-insulated, and not burning through the fuel oil nearly that fast. Granted, we commute, and turn off the heat when gone.
What temperature are you keeping the house? Ours is set a bit high for my tastes -- 68F on the first floor when we're in it, off when asleep; 65F on second floor at night. I also have a small attached workshop that is heated off the same system, that I generally keep at 50F. And, I supplement with a woodstove as long as the firewood lasts, whenever outside temps get colder than about 20F. But, we produce all out hot water from the same boiler, and both DW and I like long hot showers.
So, what's going on over there? Got lots of glass? Got window covers? Checked for air leaks around foundation, pipes & wires piercing the shell, outlet boxes on exterior walls? Wish I knew what to suggest to help...
--Steve
There are more windows than we need and no covers on most of them.
We used to keep it at about 72 but after the $1000 bill in December...we moved it down to 68.
I'm away at college most of the year so I don't get a chance to continually turn down the heat. I think my dad just leaves it at the same temperature regardless of whether or not he's home.
Next weekend I'm going to go through the entire house and see if I can find any air leaks that would be sucking out the heat. (The doggy-door certainly isn't helping.)
As for the insulation, I think only the newer part of the house is well insulated. He might have only been talking about the addition when he mentioned insulation.
By the way, do you have an attic? We don't have one so there is no heat trapping barrier.
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Re: Why is oil space heating so popular in the Northeast USA
by Denny » Thu 10 Jan 2008, 01:03:36
Geez, I am in Canada of all places, and heat my 2,100 sq ft detached home by natural gas, and my bill works out to about $1400 a year, including water heating and there are five of us here.
So, if somebody has a $3,000 annual oil bill, but if they could substitute for gas, even if the investment was as much as $5,000, plus some upgraded insulation, it would be a great financial benefit it would give a two or three year payback.
Maine borders on Quebec, and I know that much of Quebec now has piped natural gas, as far east as Quebec City at least, it would not take much to run a line south, so you'd think.
In fact, it looks like more gas is on its way for our buds south of the 45th parallel -- see this article Quebec heralds billion dollar methane project
" The port is expected to serve Quebec, Ontario and the northeastern United States.
But Bechard moved on Wednesday to allay concerns that most of the gas coming through the port would be sold south of the border.
"It is part of the diversification of our sources of energy," he said. "Potentially there could be some going to the United States, but there is also a need for natural gas in Quebec."
Bechard added that developing a port in Cacouna doesn't hurt the chances of a similar project planned closer to Quebec City.
The proposed terminal for liquefied natural gas at Rabaska, which is headed by Gaz Metro Limited Partnership (TSX: GZM.UN), is being reviewed by Quebec environmental officials after recent public hearings."
For that matter, why couldn't Maine set up its own methane port? You'd think the ships would have a shorter distance to travel that way.
So, if somebody has a $3,000 annual oil bill, but if they could substitute for gas, even if the investment was as much as $5,000, plus some upgraded insulation, it would be a great financial benefit it would give a two or three year payback.
Maine borders on Quebec, and I know that much of Quebec now has piped natural gas, as far east as Quebec City at least, it would not take much to run a line south, so you'd think.
In fact, it looks like more gas is on its way for our buds south of the 45th parallel -- see this article Quebec heralds billion dollar methane project
" The port is expected to serve Quebec, Ontario and the northeastern United States.
But Bechard moved on Wednesday to allay concerns that most of the gas coming through the port would be sold south of the border.
"It is part of the diversification of our sources of energy," he said. "Potentially there could be some going to the United States, but there is also a need for natural gas in Quebec."
Bechard added that developing a port in Cacouna doesn't hurt the chances of a similar project planned closer to Quebec City.
The proposed terminal for liquefied natural gas at Rabaska, which is headed by Gaz Metro Limited Partnership (TSX: GZM.UN), is being reviewed by Quebec environmental officials after recent public hearings."
For that matter, why couldn't Maine set up its own methane port? You'd think the ships would have a shorter distance to travel that way.
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Re: Why is oil space heating so popular in the Northeast USA
by MarkJames » Thu 10 Jan 2008, 02:10:09
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'H')ere is my take on this
1) If all said about oil and NG is true, meaning they are getting more and more expensive and this will continue, then sometime in the future, the cost of heating will be so high that people will be forced to move south.
As an example somebody calculated that it costs $3/hr to stay warm and what if this goes up to $10/hr, would you still live in Maine? This is impossible.
2) Someone said propanes are a way to go. What I do not understand is propane is a byproduct of oil so if oil goes up propane should go up too. Isn't that so? So what is the difference from heating oil? Can someone elaborate?
1) If all said about oil and NG is true, meaning they are getting more and more expensive and this will continue, then sometime in the future, the cost of heating will be so high that people will be forced to move south.
As an example somebody calculated that it costs $3/hr to stay warm and what if this goes up to $10/hr, would you still live in Maine? This is impossible.
2) Someone said propanes are a way to go. What I do not understand is propane is a byproduct of oil so if oil goes up propane should go up too. Isn't that so? So what is the difference from heating oil? Can someone elaborate?
The average home in the Northeast burns somewhere around 700 to 1000 gallons of fuel oil per year. Those average numbers are also skewed since they often include oil used for hot water production and averages obtained from homeowners with very large homes, poorly insulated homes, poorly weatherized homes, oversized equipment, inefficient equipment, poorly designed systems and poorly maintained systems. We have customers with nearly identical homes with very large differences in fuel consumption simply due to the type, size, design, control strategies and setup of their heat and hot water systems. When you subtract the oil used for hot water production, then calculate the average hours in a heating season, you won't be anywhere close to 3 dollars an hour in heating costs even including the homes with inefficient systems.
Here are the price averages of heating oil, kerosene and propane for regions New York State. NYSERDA Fuel Prices
Whether propane is the way to go depends on regional time-of delivery pricing and whether or not you take advantage of bulk storage, or pre-season pre-buy and price cap programs. The same applies to Heating Oil. Propane has roughly 92,000 BTUs per gallon in comparison to #2 Heating Oil @ 140,000 BTUs per gallon.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'M')aybe their systems were built so well they just never saw the need to switch them out. I'm not really in the 'NorthEast" here, but my home is only about 100 years old. I am told that it probably had a coal-fired boiler when the house was built in 1905 and at some point had an oil one put in (the controls for that are still in the basement) and now I have a 25 year old natural gas boiler (radiator heat).
Very true. Boilers often last 50 years or more, so many people won't replace them even though most of their heating dollars are being lost up the chimney or being wasted on service or emergency service keeping the antiques plugging along. The same applies to older octopus warm air gravity furnaces. Many were originally coal or wood burners, then retrofitted with gas or oil burners many decades ago. We have many customers still running these units as well as ancient boilers.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'M')ost houses in Maine are old and the furnaces look like they came off the Titanic. A lot of people live in old, not very well insulated trailers as well..
We see similar homes in parts of upstate New York. Some older city homes have equipment that should be in museums, not basements.
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