[billg]

A stunning upset or stunning chicanery? See the link for Zogby pre-election polling data.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ja ... 8Polls.htm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s you'll note, the numbers in Zogby's latest polls, for all but Clinton and Obama, seem to have been dead-on the money for both the Republicans and Democrats. Edwards, for example, was polled at 17% in Zogby's poll, and he received exactly 17% in the MSNBC numbers, with 63% of precincts reporting. So are we to believe that only those voters who preferred Obama previously, decided to change to Hillary at the last minute? I suppose so.

This election was regarded as do-or-die for Clinton, after most in the media had already written her off after her "thumpin'" in Iowa. But Tim Russert just agreed with Brokaw and Matthews that "this was the most stunning upset in the history of politics."

They are already grasping for reasons that this happened: the crying; she found her voice; the women turned out; oldline Dems showed up, etc. All reminiscent, if you ask me, of "the evangelicals who turned out at the very last minute to vote for Bush in 2004" as the Exit Poll apologists wrote in what would become conventional wisdom at the time. (Where did they get that info? The Exit Polls, they'll tell you. The same ones that they will also tell you were wildly wrong on every other count, apparently.)

Olbermann just called it "a titanic upset victory" for Clinton.

So, with another nod to the third section of the article I posted earlier here tonight, what's going on here?

While I have no evidence at this time --- let me repeat, no evidence at this time --- of chicanery, what we do know is that chicanery, with this particular voting system, is not particularly difficult. Particularly when one private company --- and a less-than-respectable one at that, as I detailed in the previous post --- runs the entire process.

I should also note that some 40% of New Hampshire's precincts are hand-counted, which equals about 25% of the votes. All the rest are counted on hackable Diebold op-scan systems, with completely hackable memory cards, all programmed and managed by LHS Associates. As Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org who seems to share my concern, says, LHS is the "chain of custody" in New Hampshire elections.

Other folks that I've spoken to, who follow this sort of thing, share my concern at this hour. Harris noted that it will be interesting to compare numbers of the hand-counted precincts with those counted on the hackable Diebold op-scan systems.

If I was Barack Obama, I'd certainly not have conceded this election this quickly. I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. And as far as offering an indication of whether he understands how these systems work, and the necessity of making sure that votes are counted, and counted accurately, it does not offer a great deal of confidence at this hour.

[highlander]

Or maybe polls of less than 1000 people do not, can not, accurately predict the fickle voter.

Or maybe this has to be voiced so the left can keep claiming how Bush stole the last election

Expect "real" emotions every election eve. Maybe this is why the constitutionalists wanted to repeal the womens right to vote.

It sure would suck for americans and the rest of the world if the voting was rigged.

[Armageddon]

Of course it was. Say hello to Hillary Clinton , the new President of the US. The NWO group have selected her and their 28 year Bush / Clinton dynasty continues.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'O')r maybe polls of less than 1000 people do not, can not, accurately predict the fickle voter.

Or maybe this has to be voiced so the left can keep claiming how Bush stole the last election

Expect "real" emotions every election eve. Maybe this is why the constitutionalists wanted to repeal the womens right to vote.

It sure would suck for americans and the rest of the world if the voting was rigged.

[Tyler_JC]

No one wants to admit to pollsters that they are going to vote against a minority candidate (look at Harold Ford Jr. in Tennessee in 2006).

Moreover, some people are ashamed to admit that they like Hillary Clinton.

Combine those together and you get an upset in favor of Clinton.

If you've ever called people for a political campaign, you'd know that most people are unwilling to answer the phone for that kind of thing. I'm amazed that the polls are right about anything.

I was at the polls in New Hampshire yesterday and I didn't see anything remotely suspicious.

I spent the last 3 days campaigning for Romney and I knew he was going to lose by about 4 or 5 points based on the response I was getting from people.

You can't claim electrion fraud every single time the candidate you like loses. It's pathetic.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'N')o one wants to admit to pollsters that they are going to vote against a minority candidate (look at Harold Ford Jr. in Tennessee in 2006).

Moreover, some people are ashamed to admit that they like Hillary Clinton.

Combine those together and you get an upset in favor of Clinton.

If you've ever called people for a political campaign, you'd know that most people are unwilling to answer the phone for that kind of thing. I'm amazed that the polls are right about anything.

I was at the polls in New Hampshire yesterday and I didn't see anything remotely suspicious.

I spent the last 3 days campaigning for Romney and I knew he was going to lose by about 4 or 5 points based on the response I was getting from people.

You can't claim electrion fraud every single time the candidate you like loses. It's pathetic.

[billg]

Here is what i consider proof that the election was hacked:

Table Comparing Machine vs Hand Counts

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

Hand count percentages:
Obama:38.785%
Clinton:34.703%

Machine count percentages:
Obama:35.756%
Clinton:40.121%

Overall 59,157 votes were counted by hand out of a total 287,580 votes.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an Obama supporter. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'H')ere is what i consider proof that the election was hacked:

Table Comparing Machine vs Hand Counts

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

Hand count percentages:
Obama:38.785%
Clinton:34.703%

Machine count percentages:
Obama:35.756%
Clinton:40.121%

Overall 59,157 votes were cast by hand out of a total 287,580 votes.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an Obama supporter. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[Armageddon]

9 minute video showing how to rig a voting machine. This is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs

[Leanan]

Or maybe Clinton did better in urban areas, which are more likely to have vote-counting machines. And Obama did better in rural areas, where they still hand-count.

Amazingly, the candidate who does better in the urban areas usually wins, because there are more voters there.

[aflurry]

our fight against black-box voting should not be so focused on whether a particular vote was hacked or not. the fight isn't in the statistics of what already happened. we need a better, more powerful basis for this fight. and we need to get rid of these things. even if they are not actually hacked in any particular case, they place the foundation of democracy in doubt, which if nothing else provokes even further despair, doubt, and disillusionment. we shouldn't have to wonder. we never have before... how is that progress?

[purdum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'H')ere is what i consider proof that the election was hacked:

Table Comparing Machine vs Hand Counts

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

Hand count percentages:
Obama:38.785%
Clinton:34.703%

Machine count percentages:
Obama:35.756%
Clinton:40.121%

Overall 59,157 votes were cast by hand out of a total 287,580 votes.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an Obama supporter. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[billg]

http://presscue.com/node/38034

By Number of Municipalities Won

Method
Diebold Machines
Hillary Clinton: 54
Barack Obama: 33
Hand Count
Hillary Clinton: 43
Barack Obama: 77

[Leanan]

I'm with you on black box voting, but this isn't really black box voting. It's paper ballots, that are either hand-counted or optically scanned. There's a paper trail. If someone suspects something fishy, they can demand a recount. And there are no hanging chads to worry about.

Nobody asked for a recount, and I suspect it's because the exit polling pointed to the results we got. They called the GOP race shortly after 8pm, with only a tiny fraction of votes counted, because of exit polling. They did not do that with the Democratic race, which tells me the exit polling did not show the big Obama advantage the pre-election polling did.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'H')ere is what i consider proof that the election was hacked:

Table Comparing Machine vs Hand Counts

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

Hand count percentages:
Obama:38.785%
Clinton:34.703%

Machine count percentages:
Obama:35.756%
Clinton:40.121%

Overall 59,157 votes were cast by hand out of a total 287,580 votes.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an Obama supporter. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[Fishman]

Ah, can't deal with reality, must be a conspiracy!

You can't claim electrion fraud every single time the candidate you like loses. It's pathetic

Sure you can, in a Party based on the gospel of victimhood, anytime you don't like the outcome, you must be a victim. It leads to frequent losses. Don't ask what could we have improved on, studied harder, worker harder, or hold ourselves accountable, we are the victims.

[billg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'O')r maybe Clinton did better in urban areas, which are more likely to have vote-counting machines. And Obama did better in rural areas, where they still hand-count.

Amazingly, the candidate who does better in the urban areas usually wins, because there are more voters there.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', ' ')Can it just be a coincidence that obama supporters are 10% more likely to vote by hand than Hillary's?

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', ' ')Why would Clinton do better in urban areas? That doesn't make sense to me. Obama won Concord by a large margin.

[billg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'A')h, can't deal with reality, must be a conspiracy!

You can't claim electrion fraud every single time the candidate you like loses. It's pathetic

Sure you can, in a Party based on the gospel of victimhood, anytime you don't like the outcome, you must be a victim. It leads to frequent losses. Don't ask what could we have improved on, studied harder, worker harder, or hold ourselves accountable, we are the victims.