[Heineken]

I haven't been around PO.com much lately because I'm wrestling with a dilemma, the sort that consumes you totally.

Two months ago my dad (82 years old) fell and broke his hip. He has PTSD and mild dementia, too. He's been in a nursing facility for the past six weeks and is expected to return home in a couple of weeks, able to walk with a walker. My dad has VA benefits that will cover any and all nursing-home-type care.

My mother is 80 and has a seemingly endless parade of ailments (some more real than others). She's an awfully "difficult" person, if you know the type. Controlling, suspicious, fearful . . . a bit nutty. She drives me nuts with her endless worries.

They live in one house on our 25 acres, and my companion and I live in an apartment over a garage, about 300 feet away from them.

For about the past 7 years, we've been doing things for them like disposing of their trash, buying their groceries, cleaning and repairing their house, and driving them to appointments.

But now the point has arrived where I and my companion are going to have to move into their house and take care of them more intensively.

However, an option is to put them into a pretty decent assisted-living facility (in Syracuse, NY), which their income (including my dad's VA benefit) will just barely cover. If they need extra care, the costs will rise accordingly (for my mother, at least), but they have a large savings account. Ultimately the savings get used up and (in my mother's case) Medicaid takes over, I guess.

My inclination, if the parents go into assisted living, would be to sell or auction this farm (in a bad real-estate market), divide the proceeds between my parents and ourselves, and purchase another property much farther north (probably NY State). I am technically the owner of the current property, but my parents have legal right to live here until they die (they signed it over to me five years ago).

I really want to move . . . and I really want to stay (here on the place I've put so much into since 1983). I really want to be free of the burden of caring for my parents, but I really hate the idea of breaking up our family. I want my own, independent life again. And I feel fear about leaving my parents' financial umbrella (even though I am financially independent, at a very basic level). I feel guilt, anguish, fear of change . . . agony.

My dad cries uncontrollably at the prospect of leaving his home. My mom is willing to leave.
My parents' house is too big for me and my companion. The taxes and maintenance costs are too high. Global warming is slowly turning Virginia into an inferno. I'm tired of living in the Bible Belt.

I guess this is a decision only I can make, but any thoughts from you are welcomed with gratitude.

[roccman]

Auction the farm while you can.

[tecumseh]

Well this certainly is of tough decision.

Try writing down all the pros and cons, meditate on them, go for some walks, and sleep on it a few nights for starters.

In the meantime, trying to tough if out with the status quo as long as possible is my gut feeling level of advice. Your parents are at the stage where they could pass of natural causes soon anyway. It will be some time before all the sheeple around you start migrating north because of GW and the value of your property may still compare well to the value of the property you want to move to in NY. Maybe purchasing gold with the money not spent on assisted living will help buy the new stead, but there is a gamble in this.

Then again, there is something to be said about the new start and moving on in these times while one still can. This is partly what makes the decision so difficult for you.

Also make sure your mate is fully and willfully on board with your decision.

Good luck to you,

Forager

[hubbertspeak7777777]

Thank Zeus that I don't really like my parents (well, I don't really hate them, I'm just more or less indifferent to them). They will have to fend for themselves when they get old.

If I were you, I would ship them off to the home, sell the farm and move. That is what you want, right? Or if you're the sentimental type, keep the farm for a 5-10 more years and let them live their for the rest of their years. What do you want to do? It sounds to me like you'd prefer to do the latter, because you'd feel guilty shipping them off. Am I right?

I can tell you what I would do, but I can't tell you what to do. Flip a coin, I guess. Good luck.

[PrairieMule]

Wow, that's a real Kobayashi Maru. I won't even attempt to tell you what I think you should do. I will say what ever decision you make you are in my observations of your posts-a stand up kind of person.

Take that for whatever it's worth and know you have friends here.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')My dad cries uncontrollably at the prospect of leaving his home.

[eastbay]

I'm with PMS on this.

Simple. Make their lives as comfy as you reasonably can.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'H')ow much longer can it be?

[gampy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')My dad cries uncontrollably at the prospect of leaving his home.

[jboogy]

Easy one for me too , dump the parents and continue living on their farm . A slick lawyer should be able to find someone to declare your parents senile so you can assume full power of attorney and seize their assets. If you can transfer their estate to yourself free and clear ,the fed. government won't be able to seize their assets to pay for their care.
Or , honor thy mother and thy father and try to make the end of their lives as pleasant and peaceful as you can. Did they not love , nurture , council , support and otherwise put your welfare above their own for most of your life ?

[threadbear]

My Dad threw a hairy fit about leaving his home when he was in his sixties and in relatively good health. He'd been there about 28 years. He was attached to his favorite chair, seemed to love the crazy red and black nylon rug, the dark gloomy paint, and the way the floorboards creaked in the same place, with the same sound, every day.

He was almost welded to his big red chair, by inertia, and we were afraid he was going to become slowly absorbed by it's fibers. Poor Dad could have ended his days as a lazyboy\human hybrid had we not intervened.

Once we extricated him from the house, using the force of our will against his perverse attachment to place, he was just fine. As a matter of fact he preferred his new apartment and pretty much thought it had been his idea all along.

It seems heartless at the time, PMS, but NEVER underestimate the weird Northern European affinity for growing attached without necessarily liking something. It's more about control than love.

I may be assuming too much, but judging from what Heineken has revealed about his family, I bet I'm right.

I'd sell the farm, and get my parents into assisted living pronto, provided it really is a lovely and safe place. Perhaps you can make some arrangement where if they actually don't like it, they can come back and live with you. They might just like it better than the farm.

I do hope this helps, Heineken.

[ColossalContrarian]

Sorry to hear all this Heineken, is there a deadline?

It will take more time to make a good decision have you meditated/prayed on this?

If so have you tried it upside down? Ok…stop laughing… like in a position of prayer or devotion?
In yoga we call this child’s pose. Headstand would work too. You need another perspective. Any inversion where you heart is above your head will work. I would focus on this, we’re here for you! Tough situation for sure, you need another angle… I think I remember you saying you practice yoga in the past, this will help you!!!

[dunewalker]

I really sympathize with you on this, Heineken. I went through much the same agony with my parents within the last several years. Two questions might help you a bit. The first would be how did they treat you in your formative years. The other would be what would your wishes in the matter be if you were the aged parents and your offspring were in your predicament. Looking forward, how about Vermont?

[Heineken]

A few quick reactions:

I don't know if I trust myself to have the strength, mentally and physically, to do the hands-on caregiving thing. My parents could easily live another ten years or more. It's statistically very possible.

Ten years. Or five, even. Think what that means.

I might be able to do it for one person, but two simultaneously?

I love my mother but I do not like her. She makes me feel bad whenever I get near her. She is a black hole of negativity. She makes the darkest doomers on PO.com sound like cheerful, chirping bluebirds.

I love and like my dad. I might be able to do it for him, and put her in the facility. But they more or less refuse to be separated (they've been married 62 years).

I'm 52 now; I've spent 30 years working and finally get some retirement going, and now I have to keep on working?

A few of you don't seem to realize what's potentially involved in this. Changing beds. Washing clothes, including clothes stained by urine and feces. Dressing and undressing bodies. Preparing meals and spoon-feeding them into mouths. Administering medications at clockwork intervals. Cleaning butts and emptying urinals. It's bottomless. It's endless.

Yes, they will die one day, but by then I could be dead too, spiritually and emotionally. Or maybe literally, after blasting out my brains.

[threadbear]

My parents wouldn't let me take care of them in this way, Heineken. They know it would hurt/kill me and they have the funds for the kind of care you're describing,in a facility. At the same time, if I'm in a position to do so, I would do anything within my power to help my parents, as much as I can. The thought of my mother suffering even slight discomfort for 5 minutes brings me to tears.

[Heineken]

T-bear, as usual, you have one of the best reads on reality.

[fireplaceguy]

I'm a refugee from the financial world, where my specialty was estate planning. Been a while, but I've been through this with both a bunch of clients and my own parents. The first thing I'll observe is that it's pretty easy to coast into chronoligical adulthood without letting go of all your "child" roles in your relationship with your parents. The impending loss of one's parents can be a great opportunity for cleaning out that particular closet and getting rid of some baggage. I'll come back to this in a moment but first some practical advice:

You need to talk with your mom & dad and get a revocable living trust, durable general and medical powers of attorney and any medical directives they might want set up without delay if they aren't already in place. This will allow you to seamlessly handle their affairs according to their wishes as things play out.

Second, find out if your dad's VA bennies cover any kind of home care. That would ease the burden on you a bit while allowing your dad to stay in his home. (If not, it's time to consider spending some of their income and even a bit of that savings. After all, the VA and Medicaid will most likely still be there in some fashion down the road...)

Third, you need to check right away on your state's medicaid eligibility laws - all states have some kind of "look-back" on asset transfers - five years would more than work here but you need an expert's advice so you know the "lay of the land" regarding the property. The keys will be how their right to live there for life was written and whether the transfer was properly recorded at the time it was made. If there's anything wrong with what you did, best to correct it ASAP and start that clock ticking right away. (PM me on any aspect of any of this if you need particulars...)

I lost my father to cancer several years ago, and I can tell you that the best thing we did was arrange hospice care and keep him at home to die. The smartest thing I did personally was walk away from my business to spend the time he had left with him. It was actually a very easy decision and I wouldn't trade that time for anything.

Now back to the emotional side of things: It sounds as though your mom has an unhealthy emotional hold on you and can ruin your day anytime she chooses. I've had that exact experience as well. You need to find a way to forgive her (forgiveness is actually a selfish act - something you do much more for yourself than for her) and rise above that. Misery loves company, and that's probably what she seeks. You don't need to grant her that power. In my own case there was an unanticipated bonus - when she quit getting a rise out of me she actually let go of a bit of her own anger too! It would be best for everyone (but particularly for you and your dad) if you figured this out soon. If you don't manage to resolve it while your mom is still around you may never shake it. It's not easy but it's worth doing. Good luck...

Not to make your decisions any tougher, but how you handle this will stay with you forever. I miss my dad each and every day but at least I have no regrets about my conduct when he was on his way out. In the long view, doing right by your parents in their last days, to the best of your abilities, is one of those things you do as much for yourself as for them.

Best,

FPG

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'A') few quick reactions:

I don't know if I trust myself to have the strength, mentally and physically, to do the hands-on caregiving thing. My parents could easily live another ten years or more. It's statistically very possible.

Ten years. Or five, even. Think what that means.

I might be able to do it for one person, but two simultaneously?

I love my mother but I do not like her. She makes me feel bad whenever I get near her. She is a black hole of negativity. She makes the darkest doomers on PO.com sound like cheerful, chirping bluebirds.

I love and like my dad. I might be able to do it for him, and put her in the facility. But they more or less refuse to be separated (they've been married 62 years).

I'm 52 now; I've spent 30 years working and finally get some retirement going, and now I have to keep on working?

A few of you don't seem to realize what's potentially involved in this. Changing beds. Washing clothes, including clothes stained by urine and feces. Dressing and undressing bodies. Preparing meals and spoon-feeding them into mouths. Administering medications at clockwork intervals. Cleaning butts and emptying urinals. It's bottomless. It's endless.

Yes, they will die one day, but by then I could be dead too, spiritually and emotionally. Or maybe literally, after blasting out my brains.

[Fiddlerdave]

You do need to be very honest with yourself on the personal care issues. It takes a particular makeup to handle that kind of care, and if you don't have it, or the parent(s) are tough to take care of due particularly to mental deterioration, it can become a nightmare. I have watched two very wonderfully-hearted couples ty to do the long term care, and they ended up hating their parent. I watched my father literally fall apart and die trying to do full-time care for my stepmother (a woman older than him). But another friend does very well most of the time, but she is living in my house right now for a break - her mother is getting incredibly hard to deal with.

I've read your writing, I would guess you could manage the day to day care. But your mother's negativity is probably the worst of the bad signs you have mentioned. Could you really be with her like this for that long? It doesn't sound like it. And if the money is there for good managed care, there is no dereliction of your duties as their child - there will be plenty you can do for them in a much more positive frame of mind.

[idomar]

thats a pretty tough situation to be in, my wife's grandmother passed away recently at the ripe old age of 92 and was being cared for by my wifes mother, who is nearly 70 herself, in a completely dependent way for nearly 5 years. We toyed with the idea of getting a nurse or other carer to come in several times a week, but my mother in law said that she did not want that to happen.

Is it possible in your situation to have a nurse or social care worker, to take some of the immediate burden from you, to come in several times a week/day, while you are making your decision?

If you have say 6 months to properly assess the situation with less pressure on you it might make the ultimate decision a little easier and a little more objective.

best of luck.

p.s. *with a wry grin* if all else fails I hear that Switzerland is a good place to send old folks for some respite. They have some unusual laws there!! nudge nudge wink wink