[Blacksmith]

(1) Manny seniors >65 work because they want to, it beats loneliness.

(2) Their contributions as voluntiers keeps many groups going.

(3) And why should anyone live past 30, that was the average during the middle ages and is good enough now.

(4) Supporting a flat tax is an indication you should be paying more tax like our friend in Cyprus at 4%.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', '(')1) Manny seniors >65 work because they want to, it beats loneliness.

(2) Their contributions as voluntiers keeps many groups going.

(3) And why should anyone live past 30, that was the average during the middle ages and is good enough now.

(4) Supporting a flat tax is an indication you should be paying more tax like our friend in Cyprus at 4%.

[Blacksmith]

I believe you once said you wanted to retire in Alberta? So if I understand, you want the benefits but don't want to pay the pipper.

[Kingcoal]

Getting back on topic, most of us are going to work until we drop whether we like it or not because there aren't enough replacement workers to take care of us. Personally, I think that the whole federalist, entitlement/income tax system is flawed. The income tax system is mainly just a huge jobs program for accountants, lawyers and countless government workers. It isn't needed if you get rid of all the government give away programs. Let people keep all of their income and do what they please with it. If they fail to save for there retirement, who's problem is that? Not the federal governments. Social Security, Medicare Medicaid and all the rest; do away with them, people survived without them for hundreds of years.

Without an income tax, the economy would boom. Sure, there would be a lot of unemployed tax accountants, lawyers and IRS personnel, but I wouldn't shed any tears for them. They can do what the rest of us have been doing all along; if the market you work in goes away, then get new training and get into a new market. The income tax business is a huge drag on the economy because not only is it unproductive, it's counter productive. It raises the prices on every good and service produced in the US.

Without an income tax, a lot of the money that now goes back to the Federal Reserve 0000 account would go into equities. The stock market would boom and so would real estate. While we are at it, let's dismantle the entire unholy machine; get rid of the fed also. Let private banks compete for the government's business. We had a system like that for a long time; no fed, no income tax, no government bennies and we did just fine. Let the money creation/management process go back into the hands of the government.

Why can't the treasury just print the T-bills and sell them on the open market? Why does it need to first establish a loan from a bank monopoly who creates the money out of thin air? I look at it this way; Google went public without an underwriter. I remember everyone on Wall Street saying that it was going to bomb. Instead, Google did just fine by any standard. The reason why Wall Street wanted Google to bomb was because a lot of big financial institutions wanted to use it to justify their parasitic behavior. The US does not need an underwriter to sell its currency. The same problems exist for the dollar with or without a central bank. The fed does nothing but collect interest and bankroll federal tax receipts. Am I missing something here?

Leave it to the States to decide whether or not they want to provide government benefits. That’s the way our founding fathers intended things to be anyway. Nuke the pyramid scheme before it self destructs on its own. People today are sophisticated enough to manage their own future.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')etting back on topic, most of us are going to work until we drop whether we like it or not because there aren't enough replacement workers to take care of us. Personally, I think that the whole federalist, entitlement/income tax system is flawed. The income tax system is mainly just a huge jobs program for accountants, lawyers and countless government workers. It isn't needed if you get rid of all the government give away programs. Let people keep all of their income and do what they please with it. If they fail to save for there retirement, who's problem is that? Not the federal governments. Social Security, Medicare Medicaid and all the rest; do away with them, people survived without them for hundreds of years.

[WildRose]

Well, we'll see if seniors are ALLOWED to keep working further into their "golden years". With privatization of services and profits the main objective, I predict seniors may be passed over in the interview process or forced to leave their jobs, even jobs they've done for many years and are really good at. Why? They aren't fast enough, strong enough, on-the-ball enough, at least, not enough for employers who are concerned only about the bottom line.

Before you think I'm prejudiced against seniors, let me say that I'm not young myself, but more importantly, I have a lot of respect for someone who has worked a long time at a job (or jobs, with different skill sets) and can teach younger employees a lot. But many companies don't see it that way. They'll go for the younger employee, who can move faster, even if the quality of work or expertise isn't there.

I think it will come down to who is available in the work force - if there are plenty of young, able-bodied, willing workers, they will have the jobs. If the proportion of younger workers continues to shrink, companies may relax their prejudices and allow older people to continue to work and may even value them for the contributions of knowledge and experience they can provide.

Of course, someone who develops Alzheimer's or any seriously disabling condition cannot be expected to function in a job at a level that is acceptable. But a relatively healthy older person, though they could miss days of work for illness, would be no more of a drain than a young person missing work for any number of reasons: partied too hard the night before, kid was sick, etc. I say this having gone through all of these stages. As Blu said earlier, she has had some competent older people working for her. I just hope employers will be more ready to consider all of these factors, as I will likely need to work into my 70's!

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', ' ')
I will likely need to work into my 70's!

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', ' ')
I will likely need to work into my 70's!

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

ONe of the problems these older workers are facing is the kind of job they can get. My father turned 64 or 65 this year and is a millwright with over 20 yrs experience, has a machinists ticket, his class 1, and his a/c h/v, He's been a mechanic since he was 20 and he can't get a job anywhere.

Its fine if they wnat to hire you for a cheapass $7.00 8.00 an hour job, but getting back into what he is trained for and can earn $25.00 an hour is impossible. A lot of these guys just won't work for that. So they have very little option but to retire.

[Cloud9]

I plan to work until I drop. Who wants to be a greeter at Walmart?

[I_Like_Plants]

I'm gonna work until I drop too, but it should be a CHOICE.

Then again, as the Depression proceeds apace, I guess work's going to be kind of optional for ppl of all ages....

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'O')Ne of the problems these older workers are facing is the kind of job they can get. My father turned 64 or 65 this year and is a millwright with over 20 yrs experience, has a machinists ticket, his class 1, and his a/c h/v, He's been a mechanic since he was 20 and he can't get a job anywhere.

Its fine if they wnat to hire you for a cheapass $7.00 8.00 an hour job, but getting back into what he is trained for and can earn $25.00 an hour is impossible. A lot of these guys just won't work for that. So they have very little option but to retire.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'O')Ne of the problems these older workers are facing is the kind of job they can get. My father turned 64 or 65 this year and is a millwright with over 20 yrs experience, has a machinists ticket, his class 1, and his a/c h/v, He's been a mechanic since he was 20 and he can't get a job anywhere.

[vision-master]

That's why God invented Unions with Seniority rights. Otherwise you are totally at the mercy of your employer. Get old with all those benefits & out the door ya go.

[Pretorian]

To put a line guys, this is exactly why slavery was abolished all over the world -- free people lose their health and grow old at their own cost.

[hubbertspeak7777777]

That's why I put tons of butter on everything I eat, abuse alcohol, hang out with people who chain smoke (too cheap to buy my own cigarettes), and only date loose women... so I NEVER have to worry about retirement. I betting a vital organ (no not that one ya dirty pervs) will give out in my 50's and I will cease to be. Earlier would be nice too, though.

[Specop_007]

12 grand in property taxes? Holy hell, she either has A LOT of land or lives in a damned mansion.

My 1500 ft sq. ft house runs roughly 2,300 for taxes, and I shell out about 7 grand for 500 acres and 2 other houses combined.

3 houses (2 new) and 500 acres and I STILL dont pay 12 grand a year in property taxes. Granted, I do with insurance to cover it all, roughly 15k with that factored in but thats a bit different scenario there.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'I') believe you once said you wanted to retire in Alberta? So if I understand, you want the benefits but don't want to pay the pipper.

[Kylon]

This is going to sound cynical but...

Since you've got a lot of older people with skills and abilities who can work, why not simply have those older people who can work, who can produce more start their own businesses?

1 machinist may not be able to compete, but if you get 20, or 30 old good machinist, then you can start a business. They all buy machinery together, or share the machinery they have, then each one takes a different 8 hour shift, one person works one part of the day, another person works another part of the day, another person works another part of the day/night, that way the machines are always running.

The business of course would be contractile, and if old people supported other old people in business that could give them a leg up in starting their businesses.

Oh, also, if you had an older businessman, with business experience, he could help get the businesses started with his experience, and then keep some of the revenue for himself as compensation for his time.

Anyways, that's my input on this topic.

[I_Like_Plants]

Kylon an electronics surplus dealer I know has a shop full of old, white, electrical engineers in fact the whole workforce is white

They work hard for him, it's a very happy place, unlike the usual rather evil american workplace.

Old machinists/engineers etc have to pretty much work their own small biz or work for others for whatever they can get, probably that $7 or $8 an hour.

I'm not sure how much this guy pays his guys, probably pays them OK, good tech wages since they're essentially doing tech level work, cleaning/repairing/testing stuff. Calibration too.