[Cyrus]

This is not supposed to "flame" anyone or insult anyone...but we are preaching about saving oil, yet here we are on our high powered computers and monitors posting on this forum and looking up on google for fresh peak oil stuff...Isnt the point to SAVE energy. But who am I kidding, Im on the computer too.

[jato]

I am not a hypocrite. At least I try not to be one.

I am definitely part of the problem. I don't conserve fossil fuels & I am not an environmentalist.

I am a typical American with a house and white fence.

[MonteQuest]

I think it depends upon your whole lifestyle. I have a 2001 auto with only 26,000 miles on it, so I don't drive much. I recycle everything I can and pay more to avoid packaging. I don't consume any trash bags or grocery bags. If I could, I would buy my milk, condiments, etc in bulk using my own containers. But until things change, one really has to live with what one has, and try to conserve as much as possible. Compared to someone burning up gallons of gas on some ATV destroying all that he can run over, I feel rather benign typing away at my computer.

[MikeB]

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[stu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SOSaD', 'T')his is not supposed to "flame" anyone or insult anyone...but we are preaching about saving oil, yet here we are on our high powered computers and monitors posting on this forum and looking up on google for fresh peak oil stuff...Isnt the point to SAVE energy. But who am I kidding, Im on the computer too.

[oowolf]

I read the article on ewaste in last month's The Progressive magazine. The technology that brings seeds from around the world to my garden-which I consider a sacred place-also brings misery to poor people in China who must sacrifice their future just to get through today...makes me realize the real cost of those seeds.

[MikeB]

oowolf, are you referring to the so-called recycling of computers that the citizens in China resort to? I saw something similar in Harper's.

Apparently, the recycling of American computer waste is "outsourced" to China, where it is simply dumped. Then poor people MELT the precious metals out of this waste over heated WOKS and redeem it for cash. The release of toxins is horrifying.

Remember that next time you throw away a monitor, which has something like 8 pounds of lead in it!

Also, ahh-oooowolf: I buy my seeds locally, from an instate, organic dealer, via snailmail.

[Cyrus]

Is that true?? I just recycled about 150 computers and 200 computer monitors for my business! Isnt it also true when you melt down metal, what you get out is not as much as you put in?

[MikeB]

I'll get out my Harper's and check...hold on a sec...

First scholarship:"The Trash Folder," by Matthew Power

Harper's Magazine, January 2005

"The US imposes no export controls on e-waste and is, moreover, the only developed country to have refused to sign the Basel Convention, which was designed to prevent the export of toxic wastes from rich countries to poor countries. ... and estimated 80 percent of computers turned in for recycling are quietly parceled off to e-waste "brokers," who in turn ship them to any of a number of developing-world dumping grounds...where...migrant gleaners wring every last yuan from yesterdays hot desktops.... In one method, the board is immersed in molten lead-tin solder that has been heated in a wok....The silicon chips are then plucked out with pliers and smothered in aqua regia....Trace amounts of gold dissolve in the solution...which...are purified via a primitive smelting process. The acidic sludge is then dumped....The town's heaps of computers [have] labels from...Kentucky Dept. of Education, Xerox, DIA...."

The article talks about PVC-sheathed wires burned in open ditches, releasing "the world's most carcinogenic substances into the air."

"one broker told the Washington Post last year, 'I could care less where they go. My job is to make money.'"

ETC. They don't say whether the citizens look like this

[Ludi]

Sure I'm a hypocrite. *shrug*

I work at home, drive to town once a week, heat the house with wood sustainably collected from my own land, am growing my own food (just beginning this), don't have kids and never will, generate one kitchen trash bag of trash a week (not counting business trash), have energy-efficient appliances, blah blah blah.


So sue me.

[oowolf]

Yes--this "recycling" is exactly what I was referring to. I sometimes can only find certain seeds from overseas internet operations like B&T World Seed (France) or Future Foods in GB. I had naively only considered the benefit to myself-the ewaste article shocked and disgusted me. I should have figured someone was paying for my convenience with their life.

[OldSprocket]

I work at home, haven't reproduced, drive an old high-gas-mileage car when I don't bike, and my computer runs on all-solar electricity. I have no printer since the "paperless office" has been a sad joke for 30 years.

I sold my first computer, a '486 to a hobbyist in 2001. (!) I still use a '486 notebook and this P4 notebook.

My "hypocracies" might be:

Building a solar house. I am using local materials for most of it, but some will come from farther away. The local window manufacturer, for instance, makes only vinyl windows in this forested state.

An antique pickup that gets only about 20mpg. I drive it only when I need a pickup (it ain't shiny).

[Pops]

I’m with Monte – compared to some things I could be doing this is downright saintly!

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'I') think it depends upon your whole lifestyle. I have a 2001 auto with only 26,000 miles on it, so I don't drive much.

[Cyrus]

Man Oh man...are you a business traveler?

[Specop_007]

No, my wife is though. Thats one reason we looked long and hard for a reliable, comfortable, very safe car with excellent fuel economoy.

[linlithgowoil]

my consumption goes like this:-

have a 1996 renault laguna 1.8 (wanted a diesel but too expensive) - it gets 35MPG. I HAVE to travel 35 miles per day to work and back, so in a month i do around 800 miles or less as i work 5 days a week. It costs me about £10 to travel 100 miles, so its £80 a month in petrol. i do less than 10,000 miles per year. Im hopefully getting a job just 1 mile from home soon though - and this will eradicate my need for a car. I'll save £80 a month petrol, £42 a month insurance and £180 a year road tax. not bad.

i live in a small 2 bedroom terraced house with my wife, 2 children (20 months and 7 months old) and it is rented. we dont over-consume - partly because we cant afford to, but mainly because we both share the same outlook - my wife knows all about peak oil and also hates consumerism/capitalism.

we dont fly anywhere, do lots of walking to the shops and we recently were forced to recycle by the local council who replaced our own black bin where all rubbish used to go with a blue bin for paper etc, brown for compost etc and black for non-recyclable stuff.

im a bit of a hypocrit, but when i see the waste and unadulterated greed at every turn around me, i dont feel too bad.

i want to win the lottery and construct a self sufficient house.

[MikeB]

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