[roccman]

As we head ever more quickly down the back side of Hubbert's Peak the industrialized world finds itself in a predicament:

1) Energy is getting more expensive...

2) Skilled labor is leaving the work force

3) and the economy is about to take a dump

The question is what do we do to keep our aging rusted infrastructure duct taped together...and how do we replace this aging infrastructure with new power plants...refineries...and dams WHEN CAPITAL TO EMBARK ON THESE PROJECTS IS DRYING UP...AND FAST.

I can easily see 90% of our 40-60 year old power plants...refineries...dams...bridges etc falling into disrepair without the work force or money to fix them in 10 years.

Here is what is being reported:

“We have a major infrastructure problem in this country,” said Maureen L. McAvey, an executive vice president with the Urban Land Institute, which recently published a report on global infrastructure issues. “The civil engineers have estimated that we have a $1.7 trillion shortfall in this country alone”

and here...

The White House's National Energy Policy suggests that the nation will need a whopping 1,300 to 1,900 new power plants in the next two decades.

And with loss of capital from oil sales we get this...

Mexico's Pemex faces drying field, no funds to update refineries

It is estimated that Mexico will stop all oil exports in 2009/2011 timeframe.

So there you have it...a bucket of rust for our infrastructure...need TRILLIONS in capital infusions...no skilled work force...oh and oil is fixing to hit $250 in 2008.

What have I missed?

[Madpaddy]

What have I missed?

1. Huge numbers of government indebted slaves used as labour to keep the 5% of "Elite" people in the luxury to which they are accustomed.

2. Large scale conventional war organised between the West, India and China to cull the unruly male segment of the working classes. China alone has millions of men who are currently condemned to a life of whacking the salami due to a shortage of females in the population. Meanwhile in the West we have millions of effectively useless males who are unwilling or unable to find meaningful work. India, well India is just grossly overpopulated.

[frankthetank]

roccman-

I didn't even read your post but i agree. I'm honest when i say that you're one of my favorite posters here of all time. You get it. I thank you for that! If anyone should have lots of babies, its you. Breed your heart out little man.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'r')occman-

I didn't even read your post but i agree. I'm honest when i say that you're one of my favorite posters here of all time. You get it. I thank you for that! If anyone should have lots of babies, its you. Breed your heart out little man.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', '[')url=http://www.netl.doe.gov/energy-analyses/pubs/NETL%20COAL%20May%20POWER%20DATABASE%202000.pdf]Coal Power Plant Age Report[/url] (PDF warning)
Some tidbits from the report:
-Many of the plants are old and predate the Clean Air Act
-Modernization or retirement expected lifespan exceeded in many cases
-50% of the power capacity have an age less than or equal to 27 years (reported in 2000, so now 34 years)

Of course, that means 50% are older than 34 years. Most of our capacity in the 40-50 year old range.

Not that any of that should worry us.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'M')eanwhile in the West we have millions of effectively useless males who are unwilling or unable to find meaningful work. India, well India is just grossly overpopulated.

[Madpaddy]

I might have exagerated a bit but western european cities are full of angry young men who have nowhere to vent their agression.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '
')
Huge numbers of government indebted slaves used as labour to keep the 5% of "Elite" people in the luxury to which they are accustomed.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '
')
Huge numbers of government indebted slaves used as labour to keep the 5% of "Elite" people in the luxury to which they are accustomed.

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'A')nd now the 20 and 30 year olds of the 50 and 60s have left or are leaving the work force and what we are left with is the 30K Scottsdale millionaire with one $500 silk shirt in the closet...a leased lexus and an underwater mortgage - his job at the club with the ladies was "investor".

Bwhahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!

[Tyler_JC]

Again, people keep saying that investing in the infrastructure is impossible because it would be too expensive.

Investments in infrastructure foster long term economic growth and provide jobs that can't be outsourced. Building infrastructure is one of the leading factors in China's current economic boom.

Building bridges, power plants, electrical cables and the like is not an impossible task. People who lose jobs in one sector of the economy can be retrained and put to work in the infrastructure-building sector.

Are you seriously arguing that it is impossible to teach a McDonald's fry cook or a salesman at Best Buy how to put up power lines? Or that the laid off factory workers can't be retooled to build wind turbines and bridges?

Is the average American too dumb to do the kind of work that we did in the 1950s?

Don't underestimate people.

[gnm]

I think the general argument Tyler is that there won't be the capital going forward to fund even the required maintenance on the old infrastructure (which has been long neglected) much less tons of funding for new infrastructure.

-G

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')Is the average American too dumb to do the kind of work that we did in the 1950s?

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Are you seriously arguing that it is impossible to teach a McDonald's fry cook or a salesman at Best Buy how to put up power lines? Or that the laid off factory workers can't be retooled to build wind turbines and bridges?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I') think the general argument Tyler is that there won't be the capital going forward to fund even the required maintenance on the old infrastructure (which has been long neglected) much less tons of funding for new infrastructure.

-G

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'A')nd now the 20 and 30 year olds of the 50 and 60s have left or are leaving the work force and what we are left with is the 30K Scottsdale millionaire with one $500 silk shirt in the closet...a leased lexus and an underwater mortgage - his job at the club with the ladies was "investor".

Bwhahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', ' ')
And now the 20 and 30 year olds of the 50 and 60s have left or are leaving the work force and what we are left with is the 30K Scottsdale millionaire with one $500 silk shirt in the closet...a leased lexus and an underwater mortgage - his job at the club with the ladies was "investor".

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Are you seriously arguing that it is impossible to teach a McDonald's fry cook or a salesman at Best Buy how to put up power lines? Or that the laid off factory workers can't be retooled to build wind turbines and bridges?

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Are you seriously arguing that it is impossible to teach a McDonald's fry cook or a salesman at Best Buy how to put up power lines? Or that the laid off factory workers can't be retooled to build wind turbines and bridges?

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Are you seriously arguing that it is impossible to teach a McDonald's fry cook or a salesman at Best Buy how to put up power lines? Or that the laid off factory workers can't be retooled to build wind turbines and bridges?