Grist chart of Pres. candidates' energy positions

by **billg** » Mon 10 Dec 2007, 21:39:05

Compare the Candidates

See at a glance where the presidential contenders stand on climate and energy issues. Scroll down to compare the views of all of the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates on climate and energy issues. Or narrow the chart down to compare just a few: you can click on a candidate's picture to make their row disappear, or click here to restore the full chart.

Find out more about all of the candidates' environmental stances in Grist's special election series: How Green Is Your Candidate?

http://www.grist.org/candidate_chart_08.html

by **billg** » Mon 10 Dec 2007, 21:40:57

Compare the Candidates

See at a glance where the presidential contenders stand on climate and energy issues. Scroll down to compare the views of all of the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates on climate and energy issues. Or narrow the chart down to compare just a few: you can click on a candidate's picture to make their row disappear, or click here to restore the full chart.

Find out more about all of the candidates' environmental stances in Grist's special election series: How Green Is Your Candidate?

http://www.grist.org/candidate_chart_08.html

by **Tanada** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 09:14:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'C')ompare the Candidates

See at a glance where the presidential contenders stand on climate and energy issues. Scroll down to compare the views of all of the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates on climate and energy issues. Or narrow the chart down to compare just a few: you can click on a candidate's picture to make their row disappear, or click here to restore the full chart.

Find out more about all of the candidates' environmental stances in Grist's special election series: How Green Is Your Candidate?

http://www.grist.org/candidate_chart_08.html

by **jbeckton** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 09:58:08

Good link,

Looks like nuclear power will be supported by our next president whoever that may be.

by **Andy** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 10:31:46

Only two passed my test. Kucinich and Edwards most closely match my views regarding coal and nuclear. Disagree with them on the biofuels position however. On the republican side, none meet my criteria.

by **bonehead** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 10:51:32

One thing is for sure,if you could put Bush's positions in there with the rest of 'em,you'd see that we got the worst possible president at the worst time in history.Only one year left......................

by **jbeckton** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 10:52:19

It looks like there is a good chance our next president will favor nuclear power.

At this point, I will listen to anyone execpt Ron Paul.

by **mattduke** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 12:06:09

The purpose of government is not to produce fuel or electricity.

by **billg** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 13:50:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andy', 'O')nly two passed my test. Kucinich and Edwards most closely match my views regarding coal and nuclear. Disagree with them on the biofuels position however. On the republican side, none meet my criteria.

by **aflurry** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 13:54:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')he purpose of government is not to produce fuel or electricity.

by **mattduke** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 14:23:58

An energy source is either uneconomic and they support it with subsidies making us all worse off, or it is economic and they suppress it with taxes making us all worse off.

by **billg** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 15:24:11

The free market is a profit-making machine that does no accounting for the environment. Most businesses would not be profitable or viable if the true costs of their inputs were calculated.

I don't think Ron Paul would inspire a Green Revolution...more like a competition for last remaining natural resources. The National Park system would be toast...loggers would move in and commence decapitation.

In order to address environmental destruction, you need to address human nature, and no politician can alter human nature.

I think that the best a politician can do is prove that they are willing to walk the talk themselves and then let the populace decide if they are worthy.

by **mattduke** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 15:48:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'T')he free market is a profit-making machine that does no accounting for the environment. Most businesses would not be profitable or viable if the true costs of their inputs were calculated.

I don't think Ron Paul would inspire a Green Revolution...more like a competition for last remaining natural resources. The National Park system would be toast...loggers would move in and commence decapitation.

In order to address environmental destruction, you need to address human nature, and no politician can alter human nature.

I think that the best a politician can do is prove that they are willing to walk the talk themselves and then let the populace decide if they are worthy.

by **billg** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 16:54:57

hey Matt,

eat mostly local vegan, haven't owned a car for 11 years, depend on my bike as much as possible, use Greyhound and Amtrak when traveling, have about 3 suitcases worth of stuff, lived on organic farms for 5.5 out of last 7 years, worked on small organic farms last 7, about to move to more eco setting.

currently, the small apartment i'm in does use heating oil, electricity provided by coal, and natural gas for cooking.

my biggest abuse is the amount of time I spend on this damn computer, however i don't own this computer so I'm looking forward to the move. Most often, I use Internet services provided by public libraries or communally owned computers.

i've had strong austerity streak in me ever since i spent over two years living in the heart of Taipei City, breathing into my being the environmental devastation wrought by free-market capitalism. i spent two years commuting to work via motor scooter in Taipei traffic.

perhaps, that was karmic retribution for all the time i spent when I was younger reading the National Review and getting my chuckles from Rush Limbaugh.

by **mattduke** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 17:13:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'h')ey Matt,

eat mostly local vegan, haven't owned a car for 11 years, depend on my bike as much as possible, use Greyhound and Amtrak when traveling, have about 3 suitcases worth of stuff, lived on organic farms for 5.5 out of last 7 years, worked on small organic farms last 7, about to move to more eco setting.

currently, the small apartment i'm in does use heating oil, electricity provided by coal, and natural gas for cooking.

my biggest abuse is the amount of time I spend on this damn computer, however i don't own this computer so I'm looking forward to the move. Most often, I use Internet services provided by public libraries or communally owned computers.

i've had strong austerity streak in me ever since i spent over two years living in the heart of Taipei City, breathing into my being the environmental devastation wrought by free-market capitalism. i spent two years commuting to work via motor scooter in Taipei traffic.

perhaps, that was karmic retribution for all the time i spent when I was younger reading the National Review and getting my chuckles from Rush Limbaugh.

by **Pixie** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 17:29:43

Kusinich is my man.

What I thought was really interesting though, was how uniform all the candidates in each party were. Other than whether or not a democrat supported nuclear fuel and biofuels, the only real variation here was between parties.

by **Pixie** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 17:32:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andy', 'O')nly two passed my test. Kucinich and Edwards most closely match my views regarding coal and nuclear. Disagree with them on the biofuels position however. On the republican side, none meet my criteria.

by **Pixie** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 17:37:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('billg', 'h')ey Matt,

eat mostly local vegan, haven't owned a car for 11 years, depend on my bike as much as possible, use Greyhound and Amtrak when traveling, have about 3 suitcases worth of stuff, lived on organic farms ...

i've had strong austerity streak in me ever since i spent over two years living in the heart of Taipei City, ... commuting to work via motor scooter in Taipei traffic.

perhaps, that was karmic retribution for all the time i spent when I was younger reading the National Review and getting my chuckles from Rush Limbaugh.

by **Pixie** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 17:39:36

[quote="mattduke] Ah, so you use less than most Americans. You are free to do that. I'm not sure if you use less than most people in the (3rd) world. A single plane flight would probably eliminate that possibility. If everyone was like you this world would sustain a population of more than 6 billion before it ran into resource depletion problems. I'm curious what government mechanism you would like to utilize to force other people to behave how you would like them to behave. You don't personally force SUV drivers to pull over and imprison them on your farm, do you? Why not? If you wouldn't do it yourself, it's not right to ask the government to do it for you.[/quote]

Good point about the plain flight, but the rest of what you just said was pure dickishness. You have earned the IGNORE button.

by **billg** » Tue 11 Dec 2007, 19:48:04

Matt,

Regulating other people's behavior is not my thing. The best I can do is vote for government leaders and policies that promote conservation and downsizing.

At the microcosmic level, there are self-responsible governments that administer responsible behavior. I lived in 100 person community which prohibited private ownership of vehicles. The community relied on communal car fleet of 15 cars/trucks and had a sophisticated sytem of ride-sharing and meeting individuals needs. In that community, if a member bought his/her own SUV, that member would be tossed out.

Also, I volunteered on a small CSA farm that told its members that it was not OK to pick up their share by car.

Now take that same ethic and apply it to the whole country. Unfortunately, the general populace would never sign off on it.
Most people are not willing to make voluntary cutbacks if it would mean a reduction in their comfort of living.

At this point, there are not enough self-responsible Americans to vote in self-responsible leaders and self-responsible goverments.

Let the people decide what kind of future they want and they shall reap the fruit of their decisions (or more likely a sock full of coal).