[Revi]

I think the places that stand the best chances in the near future are the small cities and villages of between 5 and 30,000. You can live a great life in a town like that, and find a job that will pay for you to buy a house and bring up the kids in fine style. I don't like the mega-cities of a million or more, nor is way out in the middle of nowhere a great option, unless you are given hundreds of acres of land and can farm it without having to make a mortgage payment.

Kids are adaptable. The future is green. Why not get started? Live in a small house with solar panels. Eat from local farmer's markets. Practice what we preach.

It's not the end of the world. How many generations of Finns have wrested a living from that part of the world? Teach the kids to ski jump (when they are a little older). Build a sauna.

It won't all fall in at once, and if it does you Finns will make it.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', 'S')o... how are you going to prepare your children to face all that?

[SpringCreekFarm]

I have 2 children. A daughter that is nearly 26 years old and a son that just turned 1. My daughter has a son, my grandson, that is also 1.

My daughter is grown but is now a single mom raising her son. I'll have limited, grandfathter influence on this boy.

My wife and I plan on homeschooling our little fella. The homesteader life will be the life that he lives and being independent will be a strong part of his upbringing. The doom scenarios will not be part of his teachings.

Here's why.

If he is taught the skills of survival and being happy in a simple life, he'll be best prepared to bounce back from the bad stuff. He'll know that resource depletion is why WE are acting and becoming independent. It won't be doom. It will be everydaylife adapting as we need. I'll teach my son the word improvise early on so that he has that ability to think outside the box.

To tell my son the world is changing in a bad way would be counter to his ability to have hope, hope for the future that he is building.

There are realistic limitations on people that will become reality as the future generations adapt to the ever increasing lack of cheap energy. Limitations like air travel, leisure time, cigarettes, becoming an astronaut, condoms, a gig as a rock star. etc.

I will not teach my son that he "Can Be Anything He Wants". The sky being the limit. I'll keep his expectations in a realistic scope and allow him to blossom into what he wants to become. If he so desires to go off to fight dragons, then so be it, but he'll not be sold a "Santa Clause" story by me.

I think it is very important to keep the doom out of the children's younger teachings as it will create a negative outcome. ( IMHO ) I'm not suggesting a polyanna approach but on a "Need to Know" basis.

Children also need to have a childhood that is fun and practical. Not Disneyland but Smokey the Bear. Let their imaginations fly.

Children will learn best by the examples you set. Be the peak oil survivor that you want your children to be!

[Fredrik]

Thanks for your input, everybody. It's this kind of experience and opinion sharing that makes this forum valuable, IMHO.

Re: Killing myself. Thanks, but death's on the menu eventually without any action required on my part. Why jump off the wagon now, when you can ride all the way?

Re: TV. I think most people will cope with having to do without it, after initial shock and frustration. It might not be back to the caves, just back to the 30's. The concept of pastime will be revolutionized, and I hope it'll be for the better. I'm most worried about youth who'll look for new (or old) kinds of violent entertainment when there are no more shoot 'em up games to play or action movies to watch. Fights between gangs from different villages were a common sport for bored or drunken youth in earlier days. In any case, the absence of TV and the internet will force people to turn their attention more to the people around them.

Re: School. After the economy has crashed, schools will be ripped of everything non-essential - and in a post-PO world, "essential" might amount to reading, writing, basic arithmetic, elementary knowledge about the world, nature and history, and (maybe most importantly) practical hand skills. School has survived as an institution even in poorest developing countries, so I expect it to function in some form as long as there's a state to run it. I hope homeschooling remains an option, if my children get into trouble in school.

Re: Moving to the countryside. I said that this is unnecessary and unpractical in my case, because to buy a farm of a meaningful size would require money that I don't have and I'd feel very uncomfortable to loan. Agriculture, now so dependent on fossil fuels, will be initially hit hard by PO, until starvation becomes a real and immediate threat and the government starts emergency subsidies for food production. Meanwhile, many farms will probably go bankrupt. Besides, the need for new farmers or farm workers might not be that big, because tractors and harvesters are likely to be the last to lose their fuel rations and later they could run on coal or wood (with a new external engine of course - it's feasible and it's been done before). Right now, I'm just content with spending time at the cottage with my son and daughter, and exploring the possibilities on the small garden plot.

Re: Raising your children. I agree with most comments here; the trick is probably to gradually "indoctrinate" the kids to accept a new frugal lifestyle as inevitable and natural, without scaring them in advance. You just need something else than material wealth and success to believe in and strive for. It's a matter of values, plus time and care, as kevincarter wrote.

Children have lived through wars and disasters that have devastated their happy, little world, but still grown up to be mentally balanced and responsible adults, when given enough guidance and love. So there must be hope...

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', 'H')ow can you raise them to cope with hardships, lack of entertainment, cold and darkness, and to expect (at best) a lifetime of hard work?

[madison]

Take your kids camping now, so they are used to getting by on less. Kids who have never had to use a pit toilet, forgo a bath every night and have never cooked over a fire are deprived. Show them that living closer to the land is NOT the end of the world.

Join the Sierra Club, take hikes & picnics, bicycle and get outside!

Prepare some homeschooling supplies now.

Find some small solar set up that will run a portable DVD player - then you'll have the occassional movie and teaching DVD (think National Geographic etc) to teach with. Buy solar rechargable batteries for CD players for teaching music, language etc.

Prepare your home to use alternative sources of light, heat, cooking etc - rainwater harvesting, daylighting tubes, solar and woodstove cooking, cob ovens, massive insulation in the house, join a CSA, buy kerosene lamps & stock up on fuel. Plant a garden. Guerilla garden in alleys, public parks, undeveloped land; plant berry bushes, fruit, nut & olive trees and vegetables. Basically consider how you can replace or replicate the systems you use now.

Consider buying a travel trailer. With a strawbale wrap, composing outside toilet, attached greenhouse etc, it will be decent. (I live in one, but it is cold without propane, just a glorified tent). Better yet, make friends with folks who have land and learn cob building and forest gardening. I don't think an apartment will be livable in 10 years.

[CarlinsDarlin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'h')ere, son. have an extra helping of deer liver

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'C')are to adopt me? As a bonus, you get a free silver eagle.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('madison', 'T')ake your kids camping now, so they are used to getting by on less. Kids who have never had to use a pit toilet, forgo a bath every night and have never cooked over a fire are deprived. Show them that living closer to the land is NOT the end of the world.

Join the Sierra Club, take hikes & picnics, bicycle and get outside!

Prepare some homeschooling supplies now.

Find some small solar set up that will run a portable DVD player - then you'll have the occassional movie and teaching DVD (think National Geographic etc) to teach with. Buy solar rechargable batteries for CD players for teaching music, language etc.

Prepare your home to use alternative sources of light, heat, cooking etc - rainwater harvesting, daylighting tubes, solar and woodstove cooking, cob ovens, massive insulation in the house, join a CSA, buy kerosene lamps & stock up on fuel. Plant a garden. Guerilla garden in alleys, public parks, undeveloped land; plant berry bushes, fruit, nut & olive trees and vegetables. Basically consider how you can replace or replicate the systems you use now.

Consider buying a travel trailer. With a strawbale wrap, composing outside toilet, attached greenhouse etc, it will be decent. (I live in one, but it is cold without propane, just a glorified tent). Better yet, make friends with folks who have land and learn cob building and forest gardening. I don't think an apartment will be livable in 10 years.

[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', '
')
Electricity will certainly be rationed in 10 years, but even with 20% of current electricity, we'd probably manage to cook our food and keep a few lights on. Refridgeration might get problematic at some point (during the warmer part of the year), but then, fridges are just a non-essential 20th century luxury, absent in most homes in the developing world.

[madison]

I'd worry about sanitation - if the plumbing in an apartment freezes, you might have crap and water dripping down from upstairs. I'd also worry about the lack of space to grow some of your own food. And I'd worry about someone falling asleap with an unsafe space heater and burning the entire apartment down. Of course all these are concerns with a house, too, but they are more under your supervision and control.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', '
')
Electricity will certainly be rationed in 10 years, but even with 20% of current electricity, we'd probably manage to cook our food and keep a few lights on. Refridgeration might get problematic at some point (during the warmer part of the year), but then, fridges are just a non-essential 20th century luxury, absent in most homes in the developing world.

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', '
')
Electricity will certainly be rationed in 10 years, but even with 20% of current electricity, we'd probably manage to cook our food and keep a few lights on. Refridgeration might get problematic at some point (during the warmer part of the year), but then, fridges are just a non-essential 20th century luxury, absent in most homes in the developing world.

[Pops]

I’d also mention, for anyone that is still interested; there have been several threads over the years along the lines of helping your kids in the Planning for the Future forum.

Of course you would need to use the search feature…

[RedStateGreen]

I've started just reading articles from the internet out loud about various topics. One of my 12 year old sons (I have twins) has already picked up on the whole peak thing and realizes things won't be as cushy when he's grown. (something my husband has yet to admit) They see me preparing in a calm way and I think it helps them feel secure.

We talk about strengthening the body, learning how to grow things, cool alternate energy ideas, etc. My boys like it. My daughter doesn't say much but I find it encouraging that her boyfriend (that she's pretty serious about) is interested in a vocational career rather than something that doesn't produce anything (He already is excellent at woodworking at age 17, with a good work ethic).

So I think they're on their way. Mine are older though, 16 and 12. If I had really small kids I probably wouldn't say anything at all.

[Revi]

I use the Roberto Benini technique. In Life is Beautiful he is talking to his son and things are really bad. He is carrying an anvil up to be melted into the Nazi war machine. Instead of dragging the kid down he makes it into a game. He tells him that "We're building a tank!"

I feel that we are "building a tank" now. We may not even live through peak oil, like Roberto in the movie, but we have a responsibility to make peak oil preparation fun. We do a lot of things that I don't tell my teenager is for peak oil, but in the back of my mind it's always there. We have to make it into a game. I'm not saying to lie to kids, but I don't think the captain of the ship has to go into great detail about the hazards ahead. Just prepare for them.

Here's a fun cartoon about peak oil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulxe1ie-vEY

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') use the Roberto Benini technique. In Life is Beautiful he is talking to his son and things are really bad. He is carrying an anvil up to be melted into the Nazi war machine. Instead of dragging the kid down he makes it into a game. He tells him that "We're building a tank!"

I feel that we are "building a tank" now. We may not even live through peak oil, like Roberto in the movie, but we have a responsibility to make peak oil preparation fun. We do a lot of things that I don't tell my teenager is for peak oil, but in the back of my mind it's always there. We have to make it into a game. I'm not saying to lie to kids, but I don't think the captain of the ship has to go into great detail about the hazards ahead. Just prepare for them.

Here's a fun cartoon about peak oil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulxe1ie-vEY

[clueless]

Children are much more adaptable than us selfish adults- consumerism is a learned behavior. Kids will become a product of their environment, I have a 3, 1 and one more on the way and have given much thought about this.

The reality is Children are a great thing, and the coming hardships are going to strenghten the family unit in most cases not weaken it, families will be more forced to rely on one another than they do now. I am thinking of selling my house and partnering with my Mother on 5 acres with a couple houses in anticipation of my other family members being homeless in the future.

In regards to just the rearing aspect I have much more fear about raising kids the way things are now than I have in raising them how I suspect things will be.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('madison', 'I')'d worry about sanitation - if the plumbing in an
apartment freezes, you might have crap and water dripping down from upstairs. I'd also worry about the lack of space to grow some of your own food. And I'd worry about someone falling asleap with an unsafe space heater and burning the entire apartment down. Of course all these are concerns with a house, too, but they are more under your supervision and control.

[jedinvest]

My eight-year old girl spied my Richard Heinberg's "The Party's Over" and inquired about what that meant, that picture of the main with what looks like a rifle to his head and I calmly explained what the title of the book meant:

That there will come a time soon when there is not enough gasoline available to use our automobile and that we will instead have to 1. walk to school each day -- just like we already do 2. bicycle more often to get to where we want to go 3. camp out in the open more often and build our own campfires...

Well, she almost couldn't contain her excitement over all the fun things she will be doings soon...