[larry00]

Well indeed oil was going to be more expensive and harder to find and get to market .
How about if you remove gasoline and diesel and power generation from the equation.
Things look a little rosier I would think.

A couple of things have happened recently to sound the trumpets of the Cavalry to the rescue.
Early this year Honda developed a safe hydrogen fuel station for the private garage to aid in Hydrogen car usage away from the cities where they will soon start . It is patented and ready.

GM announced ahead of schedule they are ready to start testing Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered Equinox mini suv cars this month.
One hundred will go to drivers who will keep them a month then pass them on to another driver for his different driving area and skills.
To speed up the testing GM ONSTAR will relay real time data o GM headquarters in a ONSTAR on Steroids mode.
The goal is to have full assembly line up and running by 2010 and a goodly dent in our inability to produce our own oil in about 5 years.
These cars only exit Water Vapor from the exhaust pipe which of course is 99 percent of our greenhouse effect while CO2 is a mere ,0373 of the other one percent commonly known as greenhouse gasses but when water vapor gets heavy .
To be fair the Germans and the Japanese have both developed Hydrogen powered vehicles too .
I'm sure the Saudis have by now got the word that the strangle hold and money laundering to fund people who really would do us harm is fixing to be out of .

I have always said clean water is the our scarcest quamody and some areas will run out long before the air goes.
Atlanta [ two months ]

Las Vegas NV. 2 years.

Palm Beach [ pumping max allowable now ]

The whole Midwest where water tables have dropped as much as twenty feet in twenty years.
Edwards Aquifer has dropped 22 ft. in twenty years .

Changes are coming alright and we will do just fine without a shortage of oil.

So the cycles of solar storms causing wind pattern changes which are the basis of climate change will once again subside and while intendeds Ice shelf is growing and and the Arctic shrinking we still need to address this fresh water thing.

Oh by the way while we have a shortage of clean water we are mandated to produce Ethanol which uses 4 gal of fresh water to make 1 gallon of ethanol and in the bargain is up to 28 percent less efficient and causes a corresponding rise in emissions.
Any way new figures need to be entered into the fray and a concentration on some of the polluted oceans and rivers in order t o clean our environment.
We in the USA have led the movement and developed the technologies for clean water and our greatest contribution may be the spreading of can water technology.
Any way we will have plenty of our on oil once we get used to not burning it.
I hear the Calvery Trumpet , and for one am glad.

[cynthia]

larryOO, Honey, How's that information hangover working out for you?
Take care,
cynthia

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('larry00', 'I') have always said clean water is the our scarcest quamody

[americandream]

Doh!!

[jupiters_release]

thanks

[kpeavey]

I've been stocking up on quamodys. Got cases of 'em.

[larry00]

I think my spell checker needs a spell checker! LOL

Been so busy I was falling asleep trying to post last night.
But thats alright cause the head may have been tired but the info was and is correct with the science to back it up, unlike some earlier theories.
I'm a rock guy and when the rock guys and the tree guys are both in agreement that the theories of solar storms causing shifting of winds away from the middle latitudes north or south basically the same way as the wobble moves the sun causing the seasons is a more likely culprit since the phenomena has been going on throughout geological history.

The same thing has been going on millions of years .
The average temperature on the earth has risen .06 in the last 100 years , hardly enough to cause massive melting of ice sheets.

You take the warm air from the equator and send it further North or South then wallah , we have a winner.
Antarctica's western half is growing while the Arctics sheet is melting.

I will stay with fresh water being something we can change/help vs pollution of the type that we exhale and plants need for food being a problem at .0373 of one percent.
Yep water vapor is 99 percent of what affects the Earths temperature.

Al and company just conviniently left that fact out and jumped on the one that would make the most money and of course in the gas department [ the one percent ] the .0373 has risen a few thousands of a percent since 900 AD when the present warm up started.
We are actually starting a cooling spell with the peak rise [two degrees ] around 1400 AD with of course the little bobbles up and down.

We can support the population during this warm spell because of a longer growing season but if a cooling spell comes along it will be very sad because I can't quote the numbers but the loss of life to famine will be staggering.

I'm all for clean air , clean water and if we are near a peak its a peak of the number of humans the planet will support with the available supplies of fresh water.

The east coast and west coast won't allow drilling although drilling is now supervised and is 1,000 times cleaner than even 15 years ago.

Our University near my house is drilling in the student parking lot next summer in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

Those antiquated laws leftover from the sixties are preventing known fields from being used and will if not reviewed cause the oil companies to build more heavy crackers to take advantage of the sour crude fields discovered and plugged in the last 75 years.

They are sulfur laden, nasty in more ways than one.
Horse shait you say?
Oil from Venezuela is heavy and only a few refineries can crack it as far as I know assuming Chavez built heavy crude crackers at his Citgo refineries.
Before that only Valero in CC TX. and Marathon/Now Ashland in Garyville La. could handle the heavy sour crude.

We have lots of sour crude fields and even more Shale Oil and Coal of both variates .
I bought a bottled water and a gal. of milk yesterday at the same station I filled up at and per Gal. the Gasoline was the best deal at $ 2.85 a gal.
The milk was $ 3.87 a gal. and the water $ 1.29 for 16 oz. or $ 10.89 a gal.

China is going to drill 75 miles off the Florida coast and with the prevailing currents blobs from not so ecofriendly antiquated drilling are bound to end up in the Kennedy compound in Martha's Vineyard.
I just made a trip to the Texas coast and where I use to see blobs of gooey tar balls littering the beach when I was young ,they are no longer a problem according to the Port Aransas city crews in charge of scraping the beaches for trash and dead Jellyfish.

In the early 1900's Port Aransas Tx. was billed the Tarpon capitol of the world and Teddy Roosevelt fished there.
I lived there for 24 years and only two tarpon were caught that I know about , they just quit coming to the western gulf.

I believe it was either the pollution from dirty drilling or colder water that ran them off but I also heard they are coming back to Port Aransas though people really are not rigging to fish for them they a starting to catch them in Shrimp nets and catch them running jigs for King Mackerel.
Thats a good thing.

Things never are static and drilling and the cleanup of our rivers and lakes has come along way since the flaming river episode in the early seventies.

We have developed technology for clean drilling and cleaning up the environment that are exportable and severely needed in fast population growing nations like India where the Indian Ocean will not support life in another 30 years.

We have oil but it's going to be more expensive and it might have to come from your back yard.

If the Government can take a persons property just because someone else will use it to expand the tax base then you can bet before the last drop is taken from the lower forty eight that eight billion bbl. field off Santa Barbara will see drilling as well as the East Coast which hasn't even been checked that I'm aware of.

Oh did I say the 100 Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars are testing for three months then changing drivers again in different locals and different driving techniques.
The ONSTAR real time Data will speed up the testing and certification [ when the SAE and Government get around to making certification possible ] .
The cars are already crash test certified and do not need the miles per gal. thing since only lubricants are involved.


Yep I know of two large corn based Ethanol plans on hold and several smaller ones.
A couple of the smaller ones I know are in water short areas.
It takes 4 gal. fresh water to make one Gal. of Ethanol and sugar cane based Ethanol which would not impact the food industry so severely is three times more productive as evidenced by our contracts in Argentina .

Good things are happening behind the scenes not reported on much because the media seems to be agenda driven rather than News driven these days.

The advent of actual testing of the Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars [ 100 of them ] I heard on a automotive Radio show and I went to Dogpile and it was in three places with the most notable Yahoo News , followed by Dow Jones Internet News with the last being something called Gurls Automotive News or something like that.

I support cleaning the environment and water management but we can do a much better job if we still have an economy to support the efforts rather than wasting resources and killing our economy.

Poo Poo the messenger if you Will but the scientists looking at the data with a critical eye for logical conclusions are coming around and the scientific evidence both organic and inorganic both come together in specific time periods going back so far two million years.

[mark]

Most people don't get it. And, most people never will. Then there are those few who understand what overshoot means. Of those, a few realize the consequences of overshoot will dictate an entirely different way of life.

Then there are the few who have moved beyond resource management and economic realities to understand the source of our present predicament.

For the sake of our children's children we should all hope those few form the basis of the next civilization.

[aflurry]

a co-worker once asked me how to spell "myswel."

i asked her to use it in a sentence.

"should we go to the party?" "I don't know, myswel."

i was never able to take anything she said that seriously after that.

the term "wallah" has approximately the same effect on me.

[Duende]

Well, I don't know about you all, but larry00 has certainly calmed my mind about this whole "peak oil" business.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Duende', 'W')ell, I don't know about you all, but larry00 has certainly calmed my mind about this whole "peak oil" business.