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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

What do you think will happen?

Poll ended at Sun 17 Apr 2005, 16:12:50

It is impossible to know because the premise could be wrong. URR is not known and speculation at this stage is futile
1
No votes
Your premise is wrong. Campbell and others have been wrong many times before and they are likely to be wrong again
2
No votes
Some other event (terrorism, major US recession) is likely to kick in before we hit the production peak, thereby pushing out the peak date
5
No votes
Energy prices will rise to a high enough level as to spur a huge push to alternates. More questionable reserves will be exploited and demand will be forced to stay in check with supply
5
No votes
Energy prices will rise at significant rates, which in conjunction with other factors (such as raising interest rates) will lead to a significant global recession
22
No votes
Energy prices will rise at hyper inflated rates leading to a depression
7
No votes
Once the cat is out of the bag (PO well known), all hell breaks loose as countries scramble for resources.
8
No votes
 
Total votes : 50

Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby inculcated » Fri 02 Nov 2007, 13:26:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')henever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln


Cash a paycheck lately? Welcome to wage slavery...
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 13:51:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')henever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln


Cash a paycheck lately? Welcome to wage slavery...


So save up some money and quit your job. You aren't really a slave. You don't have to be a slave. Don't let them enslave your mind. You have the power and the right to be free!! You can set yourself free!


Take this job and shove it
I ain't working here no more
My woman done left and took all the reasons
I was working for
You better not try to stand in my way
As im a walking out the door.
Take this job and shove it
I ain't working here no more
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby inculcated » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:30:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')o save up some money and quit your job. You aren't really a slave. You don't have to be a slave. Don't let them enslave your mind. You have the power and the right to be free!! You can set yourself free!


Since we went over the fact that it is illegal in this nation to attempt a hunter gatherer lifestyle, we will have to dispense with the notion that complete joblessness is an option under the current construct. I have, however been able to limit my exposure in the following fashion:

-own my own dwelling paid for in cash and improved upon as I went with cash

-have zero debt

-own a pickup which is used maybe once every two months to cart stuff too bulky for my bike

-use the bike or public transport for locomotion

-live frugally and buy used to the point where i can cover my expenditures and still save money on a half time permanent position

As long as the construct demands that I pay tax on what I own outright to keep me from the elements, I will need to do something that returns monetary units sanctioned by the system. As long as the construct actively targets my desire to re-wild, I have little choice but to comply in a fashion, which is in effect a form of slavery, although it is not as drastic a slavery as being incarcerated for recidivist tresspass on unihabited land or failure to pay taxes...
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Specop_007 » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:48:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')o save up some money and quit your job. You aren't really a slave. You don't have to be a slave. Don't let them enslave your mind. You have the power and the right to be free!! You can set yourself free!


Since we went over the fact that it is illegal in this nation to attempt a hunter gatherer lifestyle, we will have to dispense with the notion that complete joblessness is an option under the current construct. I have, however been able to limit my exposure in the following fashion:

-own my own dwelling paid for in cash and improved upon as I went with cash

-have zero debt

-own a pickup which is used maybe once every two months to cart stuff too bulky for my bike

-use the bike or public transport for locomotion

-live frugally and buy used to the point where i can cover my expenditures and still save money on a half time permanent position

As long as the construct demands that I pay tax on what I own outright to keep me from the elements, I will need to do something that returns monetary units sanctioned by the system. As long as the construct actively targets my desire to re-wild, I have little choice but to comply in a fashion, which is in effect a form of slavery, although it is not as drastic a slavery as being incarcerated for recidivist tresspass on unihabited land or failure to pay taxes...


You just need to move farther out.
Move to where nobody wants to live, or would even care if you did live there.

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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:49:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')o save up some money and quit your job. You aren't really a slave. You don't have to be a slave. Don't let them enslave your mind. You have the power and the right to be free!! You can set yourself free!


As long as the construct demands that I pay tax on what I own outright to keep me from the elements, I will need to do something that returns monetary units sanctioned by the system. As long as the construct actively targets my desire to re-wild, I have little choice but to comply in a fashion, which is in effect a form of slavery, although it is not as drastic a slavery as being incarcerated for recidivist tresspass on unihabited land or failure to pay taxes...


If you define every activity other then "re-wilding" (i.e. a hunting and gathering lifestyle) as a form of slavery, and yet you won't do anything to move towards actually living as hunter-gatherer yourself then you are accomodating yourself to what you yourself have self-defined as slavery.

Personally, I couldn't stand that. If I really wanted to be a hunter-gatherer I'd go be a hunter-gatherer. :-D
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Specop_007 » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:51:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('golem', '
')
Simple simple solutions.
But to un-COMFORTABLE to live with.
To let go ... means to let go of many of our illusionary COMFORTS.

Doesn't it?

ciao


I dont find them illusionary at all! I like opening a door and getting a COLD drink, I like bumping a lever amd being warm in the winter. i like staying dry when it rains, I like being cool when its 100 degrees outside.

Hardly illusionary.
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Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby inculcated » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 15:02:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'P')ersonally, I couldn't stand that. If I really wanted to be a hunter-gatherer I'd go be a hunter-gatherer.


Like most things keyboarded, a whole lot easier said than done. Ever tried to approach this solo? There is a reason that we lived tribally. So, not only would I have to have the desire and faculties, I would also need a small number, a dozen at minimum, to also be as prepared and on board. So far my attempts to find a group have not panned out, nor have my solo trials been all that successful.

Sometimes I run into law and para-law enforcement problems. There are only certain times of the year now in which it is legal to fish and hunt. Both require locally administrated permits. Both require system sanction monetary units to acquire.

Yes, everything beyond HG is slavery, because the system itself seeks to keep you from that existence. If people were actually allowed to provide for themselves, the rich would be in jeopordy of losing both power and privledge.

Snark away from bhind the ehter, but give it a try sometime and see how easy it is to transition into something you were completely sheltered from by the construct for your entire existence...
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 15:33:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('inculcated', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'P')ersonally, I couldn't stand that. If I really wanted to be a hunter-gatherer I'd go be a hunter-gatherer.


Like most things keyboarded, a whole lot easier said than done. Ever tried to approach this solo? There is a reason that we lived tribally. So, not only would I have to have the desire and faculties, I would also need a small number, a dozen at minimum, to also be as prepared and on board. So far my attempts to find a group have not panned out, nor have my solo trials been all that successful.

Sometimes I run into law and para-law enforcement problems. There are only certain times of the year now in which it is legal to fish and hunt. Both require locally administrated permits. Both require system sanction monetary units to acquire.

Yes, everything beyond HG is slavery, because the system itself seeks to keep you from that existence. If people were actually allowed to provide for themselves, the rich would be in jeopordy of losing both power and privledge.


I don't want to be a hunter-gatherer myself, but I know lots of people, both native and non-native who live hunter-gather lifestyles here in Alaska. Its called a "subsistence" here lifestyle here and its protected by the state constitution. There are special hunting seasons and fishing seasons for subsistence people. In some cases they can hunt whales, use nets for salmon on the Kenai, use fishwheels to catch salmon for their sled dogs, and do other things that non-subsistence residents can't do. There are entire native villages along the coast that largely subsist by hunting and gathering. There are "bush communities" of white folks that live remotely in cabins and share the work and hunt and gather to survive. There are folks who live like hermits on Islands in the Aleutians and subsist there.

There is all kinds of hunting and gathering going on in Alaska.

Its not easy, but people are doing it. I think its great that people can actually live this lifestyle.....

Some of my funnest experiences in Alaska have been visiting native villages or folks living alone in remote sites who are living at the subsistence level. I'll never forget the time I mushed with some friends up the Suisitna River and we stayed with an old guy living miles from nowhere in a cabin. When dinner time came he went out in the back yard with a hacksaw and cut off a slab of a frozen moose. To hell with hunting seasons....the guy patiently waited every fall until it was cold to shoot his moose, waited some more for one to walk up right next to his cabin, and then shot that one so he didn't have to walk very far to carve off his dinners. Thats hunting and gathering with style!! 8)
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Nicholai » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 23:46:14

I voted for "I'm building an Earth Shelter in Manitoba"
because that's what I'll be doing summer '08.
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Revi » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 23:49:55

Heating oil is up to $3.09 a gallon here in Maine. Ouch!

We're all going to be hunting and gathering. Hunting for wood, and gathering as much as we can to make it through the winter.

It ain't gonna be pretty. With gas up there too a lot of folks are going to be in big trouble.
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 00:58:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')e're all going to be hunting and gathering. Hunting for wood, and gathering as much as we can to make it through the winter.


Same deal in Alaska.

I spent a couple of weeks in the fall chainsawing some old downed trees on my lower acreage and making woodpiles for firewood. When we get some more snow down I'll put the dog into harness, hook her up to a sled and have the dog pull some loads of wood back up to the house. :-D
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby WhatMeWorry » Fri 09 Nov 2007, 21:15:34

$3.05 this morning down at the corner here in Vegas.
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 12 Nov 2007, 02:11:03

My first $60 fill-up...and gas is still cheap in the US compared to the rest of the world.

I leave for England on Tuesday where gas is 2 pounds per litre, or about 8 bucks a gallon.
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 22 Nov 2007, 15:37:08

Just had my first $100 fill-up here in Britain. I rented a compact
Ford from Avis to drive up to Oxford. Nice little car, even if the
steering wheel is on the wrong side.

Gas is a bit over a pound per litre. With the low dollar and high
oil prices, I just spent $100 on 50 litre (about 12.5 gallons) to fill the tank of the little car. [smilie=car21.gif]
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Fri 23 Nov 2007, 22:41:41

Oil is now 98.5 it just hit a new record today
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 27 Nov 2007, 10:08:02

Alaska just raised its state taxes on oil production. The new tax rates should bring in more than an extra billion dollars to the state coffers. It will probably also produce a small rise in US gas pump prices, as the oil producers "pass it on" to their customers in the lower 48. [smilie=car3.gif] [smilie=car8.gif]
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Flowerr » Thu 31 Jan 2008, 00:44:44

That's too bad./
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 01 Feb 2008, 14:18:45

Actually, its great if you live in Alaska.

The new oil tax will bring in another billion+ in oil severance taxes each year, and help keep the tax burden in Alaska on average people the lowest in the country. :-D
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby patience » Fri 09 May 2008, 08:32:43

Plantagenet,
Does Alaskan oil go to the lower 48 now? I thought I read years ago that it was shipped to Japan, as being more profitable than shipping to US refineries, or got a better price or some such.
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Re: Energy costs and ramifications Post 2007/2008

Unread postby medicvet » Sat 17 May 2008, 19:01:50

It looks like things are definitely starting to come to a head. Here in the OK state, gas is $2.67 a gallon..I have a jeep liberty, and the only reason I don't have more of a gas saver is because when I bought the jeep nearly two years ago, it was at a dealership a two hour drive away, and the only one that would take me with my sucky credit rating. At least I was able to refinance for a lower interest rate, and kept the payment amount the same tho, so three more years, and it should be paid off. I have had opportunities to go to the dealership and have them come up with a newer car for me that is more gas efficient, but that would put me far further in debt, so I am not going to go that route. I have been doing away with all non-absolutely essential driving, like to doctor's appointments that are more specialized for my needs than the docs in town, and going to the city, I only do once a month, and try to get a number of things done at once. I am thisclose to getting a bicycle with one of those dealies that normal kids ride in the back, and using that to do my grocery shopping. So far the bicycles I am looking at aren't that much, it's the cost of buying one of those 'attachable' carts to the bike that run an arm and a leg.

Heck, since I have a grocery store within walking distance, I am going to get a wagon next month, and walk to the store and cart the stuff back.

I wish I had the money to have someone come over and till my backyard, but it isn't feasible right now, dangit. I can either pay someone to do the tilling for me, or buy a tiller..can't find anyplace in these parts that will let me rent a tiller, which is just a tad frustrating.

I think this will be the winter that will see large numbers of people either have to leave their homes and go to stay with others to be able to keep warm, shelter occupancies at an all time high, and having a number of people, particularly the elderly, be unable to swallow their pride or leave their homes, and end up freezing to death.

Here is an ominous sign..and I don't this is the exception but the rule across the parts of the US that see freezing cold temperatures during winter. But that is just my own personal opinion and I am basing it on my gut instincts and what the article says the situation is:

http://bangornews.com/news/t/city.aspx? ... zoneid=176
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