Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

War is Peace

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

War is Peace

Unread postby Angry_Chimp » Fri 02 Nov 2007, 21:08:32

"The primary aim of modern warfare (in accordance with the principles of doublethink, this aim is simultaneously recognized and not recognized by the directing brains of the Inner Party) is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living. Ever since the end of the nineteenth century, the problem of what to do with the surplus of consumption goods has been latent in industrial society. At present, when few human beings even have enough to eat, this problem is obviously not urgent, and it might not have become so, even if no artificial processes of destruction had been at work. The world of today is a bare, hungry, dilapidated place compared with the world that existed before 1914, and still more so if compared with the imaginary future to which the people of that period looked forward. In the early twentieth century, the vision of a future society unbelievably rich, leisured, orderly, and efficient -- a glittering antiseptic world of glass and steel and snow-white concrete -- was part of the consciousness of nearly every literate person. Science and technology were developing at a prodigious speed, and it seemed natural to assume that they would go on developing. This failed to happen, partly because of the impoverishment caused by a long series of wars and revolutions, partly because scientific and technical progress depended on the empirical habit of thought, which could not survive in a strictly regimented society. As a whole the world is more primitive today than it was fifty years ago. Certain backward areas have advanced, and various devices, always in some way connected with warfare and police espionage, have been developed, but experiment and invention have largely stopped, and the ravages of the atomic war of the nineteen-fifties have never been fully repaired. Nevertheless the dangers inherent in the machine are still there. From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations. And in fact, without being used for any such purpose, but by a sort of automatic process -- by producing wealth which it was sometimes impossible not to distribute -- the machine did raise the living standards of the average human being very greatly over a period of about fifty years at the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth centuries.

But it was also clear that an all-round increase in wealth threatened the destruction -- indeed, in some sense was the destruction -- of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motor-car or even an aeroplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. It was possible, no doubt, to imagine a society in which wealth, in the sense of personal possessions and luxuries, should be evenly distributed, while power remained in the hands of a small privileged caste. But in practice such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance. To return to the agricultural past, as some thinkers about the beginning of the twentieth century dreamed of doing, was not a practicable solution. It conflicted with the tendency towards mechanization which had become quasi-instinctive throughout almost the whole world, and moreover, any country which remained industrially backward was helpless in a military sense and was bound to be dominated, directly or indirectly, by its more advanced rivals.

Nor was it a satisfactory solution to keep the masses in poverty by restricting the output of goods. This happened to a great extent during the final phase of capitalism, roughly between 1920 and 1940. The economy of many countries was allowed to stagnate, land went out of cultivation, capital equipment was not added to, great blocks of the population were prevented from working and kept half alive by State charity. But this, too, entailed military weakness, and since the privations it inflicted were obviously unnecessary, it made opposition inevitable. The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare.

The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. Even when weapons of war are not actually destroyed, their manufacture is still a convenient way of expending labour power without producing anything that can be consumed.

War, it will be seen, accomplishes the necessary destruction, but accomplishes it in a psychologically acceptable way. In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. But this would provide only the economic and not the emotional basis for a hierarchical society. What is concerned here is not the morale of masses, whose attitude is unimportant so long as they are kept steadily at work, but the morale of the Party itself. Even the humblest Party member is expected to be competent, industrious, and even intelligent within narrow limits, but it is also necessary that he should be a credulous and ignorant fanatic whose prevailing moods are fear, hatred, adulation, and orgiastic triumph. In other words it is necessary that he should have the mentality appropriate to a state of war. It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist.

Everywhere there is the same pyramidal structure, the same worship of semi-divine leader, the same economy existing by and for continuous warfare. It follows that the three super-states not only cannot conquer one another, but would gain no advantage by doing so. On the contrary, so long as they remain in conflict they prop one another up, like three sheaves of corn. And, as usual, the ruling groups of all three powers are simultaneously aware and unaware of what they are doing. Their lives are dedicated to world conquest, but they also know that it is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory.

The war, therefore, if we judge it by the standards of previous wars, is merely an imposture. It is like the battles between certain ruminant animals whose horns are set at such an angle that they are incapable of hurting one another. But though it is unreal it is not meaningless. It eats up the surplus of consumable goods, and it helps to preserve the special mental atmosphere that a hierarchical society needs. War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair. In the past, the ruling groups of all countries, although they might recognize their common interest and therefore limit the destructiveness of war, did fight against one another, and the victor always plundered the vanquished. In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact. The very word 'war', therefore, has become misleading. It would probably be accurate to say that by becoming continuous war has ceased to exist. The peculiar pressure that it exerted on human beings between the Neolithic Age and the early twentieth century has disappeared and been replaced by something quite different. The effect would be much the same if the three super-states, instead of fighting one another, should agree to live in perpetual peace, each inviolate within its own boundaries. For in that case each would still be a self-contained universe, freed for ever from the sobering influence of external danger. A peace that was truly permanent would be the same as a permanent war. This -- although the vast majority of Party members understand it only in a shallower sense -- is the inner meaning of the Party slogan: War is Peace. "

~Orwell
User avatar
Angry_Chimp
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue 25 Sep 2007, 03:00:00

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby TheTurtle » Fri 02 Nov 2007, 21:15:19

Freedom is submission to authority.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote(' Rudy Giuliani', 'F')reedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.


8O
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
User avatar
TheTurtle
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby Angry_Chimp » Fri 02 Nov 2007, 22:10:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'F')reedom is submission to authority.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote(' Rudy Giuliani', 'F')reedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.


8O


Freedom is being self sufficient and not dependent on the will of another.
Our current civilization has created a mass of perpetual children whose sole means of survival is to suckle from the tit of a giant top-down administrative state. It was Freud who pointed out that living in complex societies comes at the expense of discontents that arise out of repressions that are necessary to live within such a society. All of us living within this modern civilization are plagued by a metaphysical meaninglessness; a pervasive sense of loss. It is this inner loneliness that prepares us for domination. As Hannah Arendt wrote:

“What prepares men for totalitarian domination… is the fact that loneliness, once a borderline experience usually suffered in certain marginal social conditions like old age, has become an everyday experience of the ever-growing masses of our century.”

It is no surprise that Giuliani recommends submission to domination. As a member of the party He would also agree with one of Orwell's assertions; “freedom is slavery” also means SLAVERY IS FREEDOM.
User avatar
Angry_Chimp
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue 25 Sep 2007, 03:00:00

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby Andrew_S » Sat 03 Nov 2007, 11:40:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory


The War on Terra.
Andrew_S
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun 09 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby roccman » Sat 03 Nov 2007, 12:07:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Angry_Chimp', ' ')It was Freud who pointed out that living in complex societies comes at the expense of discontents that arise out of repressions that are necessary to live within such a society. All of us living within this modern civilization are plagued by a metaphysical meaninglessness; a pervasive sense of loss.


Like a caged animal...we have gone mad.

When was the last time you heard someone speak the words, "I am content"?

We are not content...we have lost touch with our relationship with the planet we shared for hundreds of thousands of years prior to the emmergence of agriculture.

We enslaved ourselves.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
User avatar
roccman
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4065
Joined: Fri 27 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Top

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby Opies » Sat 03 Nov 2007, 17:24:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '
')Like a caged animal...we have gone mad.

When was the last time you heard someone speak the words, "I am content"?

We are not content...we have lost touch with our relationship with the planet we shared for hundreds of thousands of years prior to the emmergence of agriculture.

We enslaved ourselves.


its funny how easy it is to identify somebody who has read ishmael :) (and actually understood it.... most people really don't)
Belief is not required.
User avatar
Opies
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby kadoomsoon » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 01:07:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andrew_S', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory


The War on Terra.


The everlasting war is a big lie.
This is what the order tells their intimate circle.

The truth is it will last about 3 hours then the real mission is accomplished.
User avatar
kadoomsoon
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon 01 Oct 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Rural farm
Top

Re: War is Peace

Unread postby peaker_2005 » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 10:59:02

I read 1984 recently myself... What can I say... I was flabbergasted at the number of things I could relate to real life.

"Osama Bin Laden" = Goldstein/Two Minutes Hate, though at a reduced frequency as it's a more glaring comparison if an intellectual grabs on to it.
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
peaker_2005
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri 02 Sep 2005, 03:00:00


Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest