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The Fuel of the Future is here

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby davep » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 08:00:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', ' ')I'm just not prepared to completely reject ideas of alternative forms of energy just because they are expensive, difficult, non-renewable or take more energy in another form to create.


Now, that should be a member quote. :)


If ushoys took out the "non_renewable" bit, I would tend to agree with him. For example, any energy derived from solar (or other sustainable sources) will have less than 100% efficiency. But the EROEI is irrelevant in this context (except for creating/maintaining the equipment itself) as the energy invested is from the sun.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 09:23:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', 'I')'m not touting Hydrogen or anything else as a viable option. I'm just not prepared to completely reject ideas of alternative forms of energy just because they are expensive, difficult, non-renewable or take more energy in another form to create.


A solar-water-heater scheme here in NZ has not been successful in spite of government subsidy.

But, in keeping with the theme of the thread, a combined solar wind hydrogen rural project is a world's first and is predicted to be nation-wide within five years.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Fri 17 Aug 2007, 21:54:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'P')eople just don't understand EROEI.

http://www.eroei.com/


Don't be condescending please. Some of us are fully aware of the principles of EROEI.

I'm not touting Hydrogen or anything else as a viable option. I'm just not prepared to completely reject ideas of alternative forms of energy just because they are expensive, difficult, non-renewable or take more energy in another form to create.


Then with all due respect, if you understand the principles of EROEI, then you wouldn't make such quotable comments. You can't have it both ways.

You cannot produce Energy at a net loss and expect to be better off for it. You might as well use the energy you had in the first place as your source of energy and forget about what you are trying to produce with it.

If reports are correct as well, that oil is at a collective average EROEI rate of 3:1 then I think you may find very soon, that you will very easily reject those net energy loss ideas.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby ushoys » Sat 18 Aug 2007, 00:37:02

"You cannot produce Energy at a net loss and expect to be better off for it. You might as well use the energy you had in the first place as your source of energy"

Like using Uranium to fuel my car directly?
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 18 Aug 2007, 00:43:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', '"')You cannot produce Energy at a net loss and expect to be better off for it. You might as well use the energy you had in the first place as your source of energy"

Like using Uranium to fuel my car directly?
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Sat 18 Aug 2007, 07:19:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', 'L')ike using Uranium to fuel my car directly?


As a form of population control?

You weren't kidding when you said you'd be prepared to listen to any idea.

Imagine how long the World's Uranium stocks would last if every car used it to propel itself. You'd have Peak Uranium, Cliff and exhaustion within hours.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby ushoys » Sun 19 Aug 2007, 11:34:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gazzatrone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', 'L')ike using Uranium to fuel my car directly?


As a form of population control?

You weren't kidding when you said you'd be prepared to listen to any idea.

Imagine how long the World's Uranium stocks would last if every car used it to propel itself. You'd have Peak Uranium, Cliff and exhaustion within hours.


I wasn't serious, just responding to the previous post suggesting it was pointless to convert one form of energy to another at a loss and better to just stick with the original form of energy.

Clearly different forms of energy are suitable for different applications. For example, wind, wave, coal, nukes, solar are impractical to consider for powering personal vehicles but they are suited for electrical generation which can then be converted to other more suitable forms of energy for transportation. And all these processes are net loss.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 12 Oct 2007, 17:29:24

Here is an update on this story which I just happen to see this morning on a NZ news web site called Stuff. I must emphasize that I am sceptical too like the lecturer mentioned in the article but I can't help admiring his persistence.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')wo years ago Mr Ryan went public, running a 350cc motorbike on water for the 60 Minutes television show.

Now Bios Fuel is preparing to drive 3000 kilometres from Darwin to Adelaide on a blend of waste oil and water, as part of the Panasonic World Solar Challenge.

Mr Ryan says scepticism from the scientific community and the public remains the main barrier to water-fuel technology.

He says there has been more support from the United States, and that is where Bio Fuels will focus its efforts.


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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Tue 16 Oct 2007, 19:05:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gazzatrone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ushoys', 'L')ike using Uranium to fuel my car directly?


As a form of population control?

You weren't kidding when you said you'd be prepared to listen to any idea.

Imagine how long the World's Uranium stocks would last if every car used it to propel itself. You'd have Peak Uranium, Cliff and exhaustion within hours.


I wasn't serious,


It's hard to tell the difference sometimes. Although Cornucopia admittedly seems to have a withering population these days.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Tue 16 Oct 2007, 19:31:20

The transportation fuel of the future is hay.
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby WhatMeWorry » Tue 16 Oct 2007, 19:57:34

and buffalo chips to heat your home. [smilie=angry4.gif] [smilie=angry4.gif]
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby coyotl » Sun 28 Oct 2007, 06:38:01

:-D :-D
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Re: The Fuel of the Future is here

Unread postby lorenzo » Mon 29 Oct 2007, 21:10:21

Why would anyone want to invest in carbon-positive (hydrogen) or carbon-neutral (wind, solar, nuclear) forms of energy, when we have all the technologies for carbon-negative (BECS) energy readily available?
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