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The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side of Gu

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Twilight » Thu 25 Oct 2007, 20:30:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A') problem that I have with some of the people on this site (and TOD) is that they take "could crash" and make it "will crash".

It depends on your definition of "crash", I suppose. People's understanding of the term varies with geography and background. There will be winners and losers. For some of the people posting here, let alone their non-PO-aware peers, the world they have known and taken for granted will end, yes. Others may welcome the breathing space. It really depends on luck, outlook, and not doing anything really stupid along the way.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A') problem that I have with your "doomer" post is that it does not recognize that we are already moving toward solutions.

Not fast enough, though. Maybe I'm just hard to satisfy, but our "progress" in the last 10 years has been pathetic. The UK has SUVs on the streets now. Imagine that. Incredible as it seems, in personal motoring my country has taken a step backwards. If your country's energy policy is less of a shambles, I tip my hat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A')nd it, IMHO, greatly overstates the severity of some problems such as the financial difficulty of mitigation.

Ah, well you see that bit has not happened yet. In a few more years we will have a better picture.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'W')ill we crash if we don't try to fix the problem?

Well that's our difference - unlike you, I am not convinced we are trying hard enough.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby BobWallace » Thu 25 Oct 2007, 22:41:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A') problem that I have with some of the people on this site (and TOD) is that they take "could crash" and make it "will crash".

It depends on your definition of "crash", I suppose. People's understanding of the term varies with geography and background. There will be winners and losers. For some of the people posting here, let alone their non-PO-aware peers, the world they have known and taken for granted will end, yes. Others may welcome the breathing space. It really depends on luck, outlook, and not doing anything really stupid along the way.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A') problem that I have with your "doomer" post is that it does not recognize that we are already moving toward solutions.

Not fast enough, though. Maybe I'm just hard to satisfy, but our "progress" in the last 10 years has been pathetic. The UK has SUVs on the streets now. Imagine that. Incredible as it seems, in personal motoring my country has taken a step backwards. If your country's energy policy is less of a shambles, I tip my hat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'A')nd it, IMHO, greatly overstates the severity of some problems such as the financial difficulty of mitigation.

Ah, well you see that bit has not happened yet. In a few more years we will have a better picture.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'W')ill we crash if we don't try to fix the problem?

Well that's our difference - unlike you, I am not convinced we are trying hard enough.

Well, when I read "crash" posts on this site (and TOD) I read things about 80% or more of the world's population dying, roving bands of armed thugs, total collapse of the electrical grid, even (gasp!) NO MORE TOILET PAPER!!!!

(Humor attempt here. Seems like some folks on this site have trouble intuiting humor. ;o)

So, you're suggesting that "crash" means something milder? Fine. Give me a new term for "the end of civilization as we know it" and teach it to those who generally pair "crash" with doomsday.

Now, if you think that I think that we're going to skate past this problem (these problems - decreasing oil, global warming, decreasing supplies of water, pollution, etc.) you've misread me.

And if you think that I think that we're moving fast enough then you have misread me.

I think what you're doing is giving a quick read to my replies to "all is lost", "we're doing nothing" Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here" type posts and reading something into them that just isn't there.

We've got a rough row to how. (Ever hoe a row of corn in the hot Southern sun? It's not pleasant.)

We should have started sooner and worked harder. But we didn't.

So now we have a choice:

Sit, bitch, and do nothing.

-or-

Get busy and do the best job that we can to make it as easy on as many of us as possible.

Disagree?
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby BobWallace » Thu 25 Oct 2007, 22:56:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'B')ob, you need to understand there is a difference here between posters saying everything is fine or FUBAR and posters who say here is what I have done and help me with the rest.

From your posts in other threads I can see you have done something.

My thought is you should share your experience in doing things, instead of confronting those without a clue as to where to start with labels.

You know; help them to make the start you did.

The time of arguing is over and the time to help others should start - unless you plan to see them weep over your MRE wraper.

See what I mean?



Actually, I've seen no one on this site say that everything is all right.

(I think I saw a thread about how global warming is a hoax, but I didn't bother opening it up.)

What I constantly see is "doom and gloom". "We're lost!" Lots of that negative stuff.

Even the more positive threads about how to run a wood stove or grow a garden seems to attract wacko survivalists whose idea of the good life is to hide in the woods with large amounts of ammo and a few hundred pounds of dried beans.

My posts on this site? I make a sincere attempt to help. You can check some of the water, tree, wood stove threads.

And I don't hesitate to call "bull shit" when it seems to me to be bull shit. When people post "It's too late to save humanity!" I disagree.

Now if folks don't like having anyone argue with them and if this is a doomer playpen, then I'll be glad to move on.

To be honest with you, I'm not learning much new stuff here. I wandered in via some of the "homesteading" stuff and found a bit on alternative energy and the upcoming switch away from petroleum. But I find myself arguing with people who do seem to need a prescription of mood elevators. (That's a humor attempt.)

If you (or anyone else) can suggest a positive, realistic, problem-solving oriented site I'll be glad to move along.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Thu 25 Oct 2007, 23:30:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', '
')
If you (or anyone else) can suggest a positive, realistic, problem-solving oriented site I'll be glad to move along.


www.dieoff.com
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby threadbear » Thu 25 Oct 2007, 23:30:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'B')ob, you need to understand there is a difference here between posters saying everything is fine or FUBAR and posters who say here is what I have done and help me with the rest.

From your posts in other threads I can see you have done something.

My thought is you should share your experience in doing things, instead of confronting those without a clue as to where to start with labels.

You know; help them to make the start you did.

The time of arguing is over and the time to help others should start - unless you plan to see them weep over your MRE wraper.

See what I mean?



Actually, I've seen no one on this site say that everything is all right.

(I think I saw a thread about how global warming is a hoax, but I didn't bother opening it up.)

What I constantly see is "doom and gloom". "We're lost!" Lots of that negative stuff.

Even the more positive threads about how to run a wood stove or grow a garden seems to attract wacko survivalists whose idea of the good life is to hide in the woods with large amounts of ammo and a few hundred pounds of dried beans.

My posts on this site? I make a sincere attempt to help. You can check some of the water, tree, wood stove threads.

And I don't hesitate to call "bull shit" when it seems to me to be bull shit. When people post "It's too late to save humanity!" I disagree.

Now if folks don't like having anyone argue with them and if this is a doomer playpen, then I'll be glad to move on.

To be honest with you, I'm not learning much new stuff here. I wandered in via some of the "homesteading" stuff and found a bit on alternative energy and the upcoming switch away from petroleum. But I find myself arguing with people who do seem to need a prescription of mood elevators. (That's a humor attempt.)

If you (or anyone else) can suggest a positive, realistic, problem-solving oriented site I'll be glad to move along.


The forum seems to cover fairly diverse perspectives now. It's much less hard core doom and gloom,now, than it used to be. Confronted with alarming information of any kind, what is the appropriate response? I mean should we go all Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney, jump in the air and scream, "I know, let's put on a show!", and then join in a group effort to write lyrics to Peak Oil, the musical? :lol:

I see your response as a culturally driven lack of tolerance for anything other than a cheery outlook, regardless of circumstances.

There are plenty of threads with practical information about how to deal with a collapsing economy and resource depletion. So who's bitching and whining?
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby jbeckton » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 08:06:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')There are plenty of threads with practical information about how to deal with a collapsing economy and resource depletion. So who's bitching and whining?


Yes, but those threads are usually hijacked by doomers. It's ok with me, I like showing them that they haven't figured it all our yet.

Just don't act like it isn't there.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 09:32:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')There are plenty of threads with practical information about how to deal with a collapsing economy and resource depletion. So who's bitching and whining?


Yes, but those threads are usually hijacked by doomers. It's ok with me, I like showing them that they haven't figured it all our yet.

Just don't act like it isn't there.


BULLSHIT and Fucking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

You and wallace sound like a couple bitches.

Fucking leave PO.com if it is not right for you...got it?

10s of thousand of great posts are nested within these cyber walls will life saving tips...

Read them...put them into practice...and STFU!

Fucking biaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby jbeckton » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 09:37:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')There are plenty of threads with practical information about how to deal with a collapsing economy and resource depletion. So who's bitching and whining?


Yes, but those threads are usually hijacked by doomers. It's ok with me, I like showing them that they haven't figured it all our yet.

Just don't act like it isn't there.


BULLSHIT and Fucking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

You and wallace sound like a couple bitches.

Fucking leave PO.com if it is not right for you...got it?

10s of thousand of great posts are nested within these cyber walls will life saving tips...

Read them...put them into practice...and STFU!

Fucking biaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And the biggest baby on PO.com complains again. (we all saw the 10 threads you started to whine about PO, and the other threads you started to whine about other posters, so it's funny you should then complain about complaing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I am not complaining, I like throwing your own ignorant comments back in your face.

Keep em' coming!

Can ya dig wittle man?
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Ludi » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 09:38:41

Suggest taking this to the HOF.


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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Doly » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 09:41:31

Hey guys, how do people get to be an expert? I've seen I've turned into one, but it isn't just number of posts, because jbeckton is an expert, too.
What are you doing about peak oil?
I am doing this
(click on the www button) v
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Twilight » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 13:58:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'W')ell, when I read "crash" posts on this site (and TOD) I read things about 80% or more of the world's population dying, roving bands of armed thugs, total collapse of the electrical grid, even (gasp!) NO MORE TOILET PAPER!!!!

So, you're suggesting that "crash" means something milder? Fine. Give me a new term for "the end of civilization as we know it" and teach it to those who generally pair "crash" with doomsday.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with that. The apocalyptic mindset is not known for its openness to reason, so you are wasting your time engaging it. Squabbling over the extent of collapse makes all participants look like a parody of a trade union.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'N')ow, if you think that I think that we're going to skate past this problem (these problems - decreasing oil, global warming, decreasing supplies of water, pollution, etc.) you've misread me.

And if you think that I think that we're moving fast enough then you have misread me.

Due in large part to your vocal opposition to the above, that is exactly the impression I have formed. I'm afraid you have chosen to fight a losing battle. There is still time to withdraw.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'W')e should have started sooner and worked harder. But we didn't.

Yep.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BobWallace', 'S')o now we have a choice:

Sit, bitch, and do nothing.

-or-

Get busy and do the best job that we can to make it as easy on as many of us as possible.

Disagree?

The general public's bitching will be a thing to behold, I'm sure. Me, I've got other ideas.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 14:06:38

Here's a third option and the one I chose to employ:

1) read a shit load on food/shelter/water/fist aid/defense - CHECK

2) buy a shit load of books/ammo/guns/food/and land - CHECK

3) bury a bunker on said land - CHECK

4) grab lawn chair...handful of popcorn...a cold one and watch the show unfold - WORK IN PROGRESS...

Popcorn please.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Pops » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 15:10:19

No, you forgot No. Five; talk shit to everyone who can see a different outcome through different means than yours.

Well, talk enough shit to those with some bit of practical experience you may need in the future - but with thoughts of outcomes other than yours, and they will choose to simply let you sit there in your lawn chairs and talk to yourselves.

Like bobwallace has chosen to do.

Unfortunately, people like your brother-in-law or sister or kids – you know; The Sheep, might have been able to use some of that experience at some point in the future.

But who cares, right?

You got your popcorn.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 15:15:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'N')o, you forgot No. Five; talk shit to everyone who can see a different outcome through different means than yours.

Well, talk enough shit to those with some bit of practical experience you may need in the future - but with thoughts of outcomes other than yours, and they will choose to simply let you sit there in your lawn chairs and talk to yourselves.

Like bobwallace has chosen to do.

Unfortunately, people like your brother-in-law or sister or kids – you know; The Sheep, might have been able to use some of that experience at some point in the future.

But who cares, right?

You got your popcorn.


You got that right pops...who cares.

Do you?

And if you do... why?

6 Billion gotta go Pops...

What part of that is a mystery to you?

Tell ya what bro...you go about saving the planet and put as many on your ark as you can.

I applaud you even though I think it is about as effective as pissing in a volcano.

PO has been around for 51 years...if food is not in a bunker now...too fucking bad...that's life.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby basil_hayden » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 15:51:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '1')0s of thousand of great posts are nested within these cyber walls will life saving tips...


Too bad none of them are yours.....

Heed your own advice:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', ' ')Fucking leave PO.com if it is not right for you...got it?
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 15:55:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '1')0s of thousand of great posts are nested within these cyber walls will life saving tips...


Too bad none of them are yours.....

Heed your own advice:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', ' ')Fucking leave PO.com if it is not right for you...got it?


Garlic - good to hear from ya again bro!

What was that you were saying...did not make much sense...again.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby basil_hayden » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 16:06:16

Does anything ever make sense when your head's up your ass?
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby roccman » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 16:08:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'D')oes anything ever make sense when your head's up your ass?



ummmmm...

you tell me.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby basil_hayden » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 16:10:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'D')oes anything ever make sense when your head's up your ass?



ummmmm...

you tell me.


What was that Rocco? I can't hear you with your head up there like that. Back to your bunker now, before you hurt yourself coming up with another sensational headline (assline in your case).
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Re: The "We Ain't Dead Yet" Thread. With a Side o

Postby Pops » Fri 26 Oct 2007, 16:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'Y')ou got that right pops...who cares.

Do you?

No, I don’t care about your kids because you obviously have a bunker stocked well enough to last generations.

I do care about folks trying to find a little info in their attempt to save their own, which I see this site offering in places.

I have a hard time understanding why that offends you and others so much.
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