[whereagles]

The US operates on a market logic. You will see changes only if there are physical shortages OR if the same amount of energy coming from oil can be produced more cheaply via other sources.

Physical shortages are probably still far away and Matt Simmons estimates a $250-300 barrel price before renewables become fully competitive.

So I guess my answer would be "changes at around $250 a barrel".

[KevO]

WTI still $92.81 at
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/

[aancci]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', '$')92.22

- and dropping back a little ...

[PeakingAroundtheCorner]

WTI $93.55

http://www.upstreamonline.com/market_da ... kets_crude

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakingAroundtheCorner', 'W')TI $93.55

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '
')But at no time did anyone mention the P word, or anything like "we need to use less". I flipped over to the next channel G4TV, and they had an expert on hybrids discussing the new Prius. He said to the hostess that we needed to drive less, and right then his sat feed was cut.

The hostess said "did he just say we need to drive less? I drive my Expedition to work every day and I'm not going to stop!"

Hahaha sure you're not. Maybe she can use her "hawtness" and "talent" to get fuel when us regular joes are riding bikes and growing potatoes?

[Roy]

Got gas???

She was definitely 'hawt'. I'd give her a gallon or two! Of gasoline that is.

[Chuckmak]

yeah i'd do her in a heartbeat....but i'd only give her *MAYBE* a gallon.

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Crude oil for December delivery rose $1.27, or 1.4 percent, to $91.73 a barrel at the 2:30 p.m. close of floor trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Futures climbed to $92.22, the highest since trading began in 1983. Oil is up 52 percent from a year ago.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'y')eah i'd do her in a heartbeat....but i'd only give her *MAYBE* a gallon.

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')I suspect, that is a way how most of members of this forum will be released of their emergency fuel reserves.

[dohboi]

So its gone up about 50% in the last year. What they leave out is that it has been going up about 50% EVERY year on average since 2000!

The main stream is just starting to get it. I'm hearing more talk about "flat production in the face of growing demand," but not the reality which is "falling production" for the last two years in the face of exponential growth in price for the last seven years. No mention that discoveries peaked thirty some years ago.

So how high is it going to go next week, folks? Will we hit $100/bbl? Or is it going to (temporarily) subside? Can a new "floor" be determined yet?

[Temperedoil]

It looks to me like many (or, most) analysts are expecting OPEC to "come to the party" and substantially increase production. That expectation is likely to be what is holding the market back from shifting into full scale panic mode. If OPEC does not increase production significantly over the next year or two, then we could probably expect some very nervous traders pushing the price to stratospheric levels.

Unless recession steps in first.

[dohboi]

Good points, but what is your definition of "stratospheric" these days? The bar keeps shifting. By most historic standards we're pretty far into the stratosphere already.

I predicted $160 for '08 a while back, which seemed high even to many very bright people here then, but now it seems almost tame.

[Temperedoil]

The price of oil is high by historical standards, yes. However, the major industrialised nations have been able to weather the storm so far. The apparently muted effects of the oil prices we have seen so far would suggest that this may not be such a high price in psychological terms. Perhaps, when the price is high enough to lead to a leap in inflation and to impact upon the lives of average people in such places as the USA, Europe, etc, that price will be considered intolerably high. If it goes beyond that, we may call the price stratospheric.

The difference between "acceptable" and "stratospheric" may be only $20, though it may be registered not in terms of absolute dollars, but in terms of effects. It might even be that once all of the slack let out by the poorer nations has been taken up by the wealthier nations, $80 or even $70 might be considered very high, $90 or $100 stratospheric.

[whereagles]

I stand by Simmon's renewables breakpoint: anything below $200-250 = renewables not competitive = no effect on economy..

[Revi]

Renewables are already competitive. Solar hot water already beats electric hollow. Electric transportation already is an economic alternative to the internal combustion engine. Get an NEV and see how much less it costs to operate. A lot of people could make it economically if they used some of the alternatives.

Wind power is coming into it's own now. It is cheaper per kilowatt hour than a lot of fossil fueled ways of making electricity.

We switched to alternatives for half of our energy use in our household. I figure that we save over $2500 per year and have paid off the initial investment and are now making money.

Others can wait until it hits $250, but I think the time for alternatives is now. At $250 a barrel they will really be making money.

[Teclo]

This is a currency thing that was like divine brown on hugh grant's donkey packet. Fuck 'em I think it's BS. The dollar has tanked thanks to Berspanke and his meth
Nevermind, Romero out.

[Bas]

$92.40 in early monday morning Asian trading.

http://www.livecharts.co.uk/MarketCharts/crude.php

[shortonoil]

Revi said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')We switched to alternatives for half of our energy use in our household. I figure that we save over $2500 per year and have paid off the initial investment and are now making money.