[carrottop]

just thought i would comment! has anyone thought of how much water it will take to grow all these plants they are going to use for bio-fuels. you know the stuff that is going to save us from peak oil!!

[MD]

Access to fresh water could well become the biggest story of all.

The Great Lakes region is looking better by the year.

[Brokaws-area]

Welcome carrottop.
Judging from the number of currently active threads on water and drought issues, it does seem like peak water is the more pressing issue at the moment. I know it's the one on my mind... either I am actively thinking about it, or it lurks like dark background noise, a constant undercurrent running through my days and nights.
Hikers along the AT are going 10 miles out of their way to a 'good spring' only to find it dry. The animals are leaving the ridgetops and gathering at the river, that being the only place they can find water. But even the rivers are very low now.
Western civilization has a "toxic" relationship with water. Native americans realized its sacred nature and acted accordingly.
I remain, visualizing a long slow drizzle of non acidic rain,
brokaw

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'A')ccess to fresh water could well become the biggest story of all.

The Great Lakes region is looking better by the year.

[kokoda]

The thing about oil is that its supply is fairly consistent. Output varies slightly from year to year, but, apart for a period during the seventies, its output is reasonably consistent.

The world economy depends on the constant and reliable supply of oil ... as the afore mentioned slump in the seventies bears witness too.

That brings me to water and biofuels. How can biofuel replace or at least offset oil production if it is so reliant on water?

In Australia we have seen grain production crash over the last few years as a result of ongoing drought conditions. Imagine if Saudi Arabia's oil production jumped up and down by 20% to 30% every other year. The world's economy would be in ruins.

Fresh water supplies can no longer be guaranteed and as a result biofuel production cannot be guaranteed.

[Brokaws-area]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')How can biofuel replace or at least offset oil production if it is so reliant on water?

[kjmclark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'N')ot even the Great Lakes region is immune from GW-related water problems. Some areas have been droughty this year, and Lake Superior itself is showing early signs of a long-term drying-up trend.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'N')ot even the Great Lakes region is immune from GW-related water problems. Some areas have been droughty this year, and Lake Superior itself is showing early signs of a long-term drying-up trend.

[threadbear]

Water depletion is MUCH scarier than oil depletion and the evidence is all around us. It's upon us, and far too many are distracted with less problematic issues. Food prices are going to skyrocket while oil prices tumble, methinks.

[frankthetank]

Thats because all the rain keeps falling on Wisconsin, SE MN, most of Iowa and a few other areas. This weather pattern has been in place since early August around here and is getting old. For the year we are @ 37.35 inches of rain. Average is 32.36 in.for the year.

[Heineken]

I agree. PO doesn't scare me much. It's the rest of it that scares me, drought especially.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') agree. PO doesn't scare me much. It's the rest of it that scares me, drought especially.

[Heineken]

Fascinating comments, Threadbear.

Doom can get personal, can't it? We trade doom-related ideas and images like baseball cards here, but suddenly the deadly claws can reach out of the frame and GRAB YOU and SUDDENLY IT'S REAL.

I have never been so consumed by fear as I am now, mired in this epochal drought. Each day the noose tightens another tiny fraction of a turn. Part of me still can't believe it's happening, still can't accept the forecast each week of yet another cloudless, rainless week. The pitiful 10% and 20% probabilities of precipitation come and go almost unnoticed now, as though they are mirages of a meteorologist's fancy. I will believe only rain itself.

It's happening to me. The eagle has me in its claws. I can only pray it will whimsically release me and move on to a plumper victim.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'F')ascinating comments, Threadbear.

Doom can get personal, can't it? We trade doom-related ideas and images like baseball cards here, but suddenly the deadly claws can reach out of the frame and GRAB YOU and SUDDENLY IT'S REAL.

I have never been so consumed by fear as I am now, mired in this epochal drought. Each day the noose tightens another tiny fraction of a turn. Part of me still can't believe it's happening, still can't accept the forecast each week of yet another cloudless, rainless week. The pitiful 10% and 20% probabilities of precipitation come and go almost unnoticed now, as though they are mirages of a meteorologist's fancy. I will believe only rain itself.

It's happening to me. The eagle has me in its claws. I can only pray it will whimsically release me and move on to a plumper victim.

[gg3]

What's presently got me scared is the 30% probability of a 7.0 earthquake on the Hayward fault, about 1/2 mile from where I am sitting as I write this. Consider your house being flattened around you, and everything else for miles around being similarly squashed, with exactly zero warning. Kind of like a hydrogen bomb going off.

As for water...

Nuclear plants will do fine if they're located along the coasts or on decent lakes or rivers. And it doesn't take a world-class lake or river to provide all the cooling water needed. Also the ones along the coasts can run a tertiary loop to desalinate seawater. (As for sea level rise, not a problem, just locate the plants in the zones where the climate change maps say they will still be on dry ground; and then build decent dikes around them to be on the safe side.)

The majority of residential water use goes to the lawn, so ditch the lawn. This will happen by law sooner or later. For indoor water consumption, 25% goes to the washing machine and 25% to the toilet: so store the used water coming out of the clothes washer and use that to flush the toilet, and thereby cut back indoor water use by 25% (the amount of clean water that would otherwise go to toilet flushes) without compromising on clean clothes or hygiene.

The major users of water are heavy industry and agriculture. For the latter, new irrigation technologies can make a major difference. For the former, an economic depression caused by oil prices will take care of it for us.

Yes, the absence of rain is scary. But look into where your water comes from before you go into panic mode: in most cases it's secure enough that it will continue to hold up, assuming reasonsble conservation measures can be applied.

Bottom line however is that the Earth is overpopulated by 50% to 60%. And North America & Europe are in a good position to remain viable, moreso than other regions. The dieoffs are going to hit elsewhere long before they hit us, and hit us less intensely than elsewhere, and perhaps by that time humans wlll have learned their lesson, come to their senses, and started to change their ways. Sad and miserable but true: most of us will be spectators while other parts of the world are in for a slaughter.

[threadbear]

redundant.

[threadbear]

Not to be picky, GG3, but the depression won't necessarily have as much to do with oil, as it does with a plummeting dollar. Seeing as oil is priced in dollars, the price of oil is being bid up as much due to anticipation of further devaluations, as anything else.

I was just watching CNBC, which showed weakness in treasuries, weakness in dollar, strength in gold and other currencies and also strength in oil. Looks like a weak dollar scenario, driven by ridiculous lending practises and talks of a 100 billion dollar bail out. The bidding up of the oil price was described as due to belief we are in for a colder winter and higher demand, which is part of the picture. The really big chill is on the dollar, and anticipation of a further big chill in the currency sector.

I note that severe regional water problems are getting almost zero coverage in the mainstream media, and wonder if local media is giving it due coverage, where you are, Heineken?

When we had drought spring and summers year after year, the weather girl or guy would come on and without fail, "Another glorious day in Vancouver!! Get out your water skis!!" I felt like throwing a shoe threw the tv, it bugged me so much.

[Heineken]

The NBC Nightly News had the Southeast drought as its lead story today, T-bear. There are also many reports in the local media. (Although it did take too long for the local weathercasters to stop saying what wonderful sunny weather we've been having.) This event is penetrating deeply around here. It's just too hard to ignore, and every day it gets a little harder.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I')t's just too hard to ignore, and every day it gets a little harder.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', '
')In a few days, I'm going to start stocking up on bottled water and get some 60-gallon drums, and just hope that's enough to survive this terrible crisis.