[jasonraymondson]

Where do you stand? Are we genetically predisposed to the concept of peak oil / social collapse theories or is it the experiences received from the people around us, those that we meet online, and our parents who made us this way?

While I believe that both might play a part, which one do you feel dominates

[Pops]

As a natural father and a step-dad I have seen both.

My stepson says he is the man I raised him to be and he is…

My natural daughter is the woman her grandmother would have been proud to call her own and so am I.

So what do you think?

[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A')s a natural father and a step-dad I have seen both.

My stepson says he is the man I raised him to be and he is…

My natural daughter is the woman her grandmother would have been proud to call her own and so am I.

So what do you think?

[Roy]

Pstarr you hit the nail on the head I believe.

How many times do we see siblings, raised pretty much the same, turn out totally different in terms of termperment, accomplishment, behavior etc?

I believe that 'temperment' is as much nature as it is nurture, if not moreso. Certainly that applies to dogs, cattle, chickens, and just about any other animal that people raise for fun or profit. Why would we, as a higher form of animal, be any different? In my mind we are not. I believe we humans are just another organism that evolved on this planet, an animal with self-awareness, yet still animals in terms of instinctual drives, reproduction, and survival.

That is not to say that logic and reason cannot overcome instinctual drives, but in most cases they do not. One has only to look around to see that.

Nature then nurture is what I believe.

My 2¢

[Ayoob]

Nature.

[eastbay]

Nature, just a bit over 99%.
Nurture, a bit under 1%.

[jasonraymondson]

So, the way I understand it; you all feel that you were predestined to be who you are and that freewill and your enviroment had little to do with the person you are today.

[Plantagenet]

Studies of twins separated at birth and adopted by families with different characteristics show that the twins still have very similar IQs and personalities, no matter how great the differences between the economic status and the nature and the IQs of the families that raised them and the positive or negative circumstances of their upbringings.

These studies have been done on separated twins all over the world with the same result. The studies suggest that about 60-80% of your intelligence, personality traits, etc. are pre-determined by your genetic inheritance, and the rest by your upbringing and personal experiences.

[WildRose]

I have a story for you, jaysonraymondson, one that carries some hope and has a happy ending.

My mother-in-law, who is 82 now, was raised by two women. She lived with her biological mother and father until her mother left her father (who was a dirt-poor farmer) and went looking for money. Her mother was selfish and really mean, morbidly obese, and forced my mother-in-law (who was the eldest of the kids) to do most of her work and also bestowed upon her many beatings, which from the age of 35 or so have caused her musculoskeletal problems and chronic pain.
My mother-in-law despised this woman and even after her death has only referred to her as "Lydia".

Anyway, after Lydia left the farm looking for a better life, my mother-in-law's father met a poor farming woman in Saskatchewan, they fell in love and married, so this woman is my MOL's stepmom. This happened when my MOL was already mostly grown, so she was indeed a product of the horrific memories of her childhood and adolescence. The stepmom, though, was a loving, generous, hard-working individual not afraid of a challenge, and she won my MOL's love and respect and truly was one of the biggest determining factors in the way my MOL decided to live the rest of her life.

My MOL married and had five children, whom she raised mostly on her own because my father-in-law worked as a locomotive engineer and was on the road most of the time while the kids were growing up. She did an excellent job in her role as mom; my husband and his siblings are the proof, and I am so thankful to her for raising the man I met and married. She also was a strong community supporter in her younger years and I'm sure will be missed by many when she passes away.

This is not to say that she hasn't had any lingering effects of the abuse she suffered when she was younger. She has had some problems with anxiety and depression over the years and has some "peculiarities" which likely could be attributed to it. But, with the help of her stepmom and her own desire to not repeat the past, this story has had a much happier ending than it could have had.

Mom-in-law, aged 82, and her stepmom, aged 95, continue to have a strong relationship, though distance separates them now.

[threadbear]

Wild Rose, I notice Hallmark doesn't make Mother's Day Cards for mothers like your mother-in-law's natural mother--but they should. What do you think?:

"Roses are red, Violets are blue, Mom, you're an obese brood sow, so really.... f*** you. HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY

Wow. You wonder how people like your mom-in-law overcome their pasts.

Nature, nurture. That's a bit limiting. Personal philsophy can overcome a lot. Also, culture, political influence within that culture, play a huge role. My mother and woman of her age and class are almost uniformly more submissive than women my age. They can't all be this way genetically. You also would have a tough time raising a girl to be this way, within the family, as the culture is so at odds with the kind of social conditioning that results in placid submissive women.

How about the effects of estrogen-like hormones in the water supply? That has to have an effect, in utero and perhaps on the child, as he/she develops.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'W')ild Rose, I notice Hallmark doesn't make Mother's Day Cards for mothers like your mother-in-law's natural mother--but they should. What do you think?:

"Roses are red, Violets are blue, Mom, you're an obese brood sow, so really.... f*** you. HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY

[Plantagenet]

James Watson, Discoverer of DNA, says Africans are genetically constrained by their DNA to be less intelligent, on average, then other peoples.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... l&offset=0

The nature vs. nurture debate affects both the perception of individuals and entire racial groups.

[Baldwin]

Nurture. My grandfather made me peak-aware way before I connected the term peka and oil.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'N')urture. My grandfather made me peak-aware way before I connected the term peka and oil.

[Plantagenet]

James Watson's views on the inheritability of intelligence weren't PC, so his lecture in London has been cancelled.

Watson cancelled