[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')What rights do corporations have that infringe on yours?

[dex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'W')hat rights do corporations have that you do not?
What rights do corporations have that infringe on yours?

[Plantagenet]

Some corporations are giant multi-national firms. Some are actually owned by governments, like the Russian and Chinese state-controlled firms.

In the US, we also have many small businesses and many many small family farms that are also incorporated, some as family "S" corporations.

You don't think families and dentists and realtors and lawyers and family farms and small businesses and sales clubs and small stores set up by small groups of people should be able to form businesses and corporations? Why not?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TBroedsgaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

--U.S. Declaration of Independence

[128shot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')What rights do corporations have that infringe on yours?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')What rights do corporations have that infringe on yours?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'W')hat rights do corporations have that you do not?
What rights do corporations have that infringe on yours?

[jboogy]

When the former CEO of an oil services corp . can become vice-president and instigate a major war over false pretenses which will cost me and my descendants thousands of dollars in taxes plus expose me and mine to potentially violent repercussions in response to this war of choice , I’d say that infringes on my right to life and pursuit of happiness . When this same corp. receives a billion dollars in federal contracts , tax money that could go towards providing my children better books , better healthcare , better police and fire protection , a better opportunity at higher education , I’d say that corp. is infringing on my children’s rights .
Did union carbide infringe on the people of Bhopals rights to life ?
Did Exxon infringe on the fisherman’s rights when they let a captain with drinking problems offload a couple million gallons of crude at the wrong port ?
When corporations can hire former politicians ( lobbyists ) to wine and dine current politicians to get favorable legislation at the expense of the common good that infringes on everyone’s rights . It may be currently legal but that doesn’t mean it’s right . Individuals don’t have the time or resources to compete with a corp. for influence . Your right Specop in that it’s as much voter apathy as anything that’s responsible for this but TPTB have gradually been tilting the playing field in their favor for years and years . They over reached though and now their greed is coming back to bite them .Our system is broken and more and more Americans everyday are starting to wake up to that fact and they are starting to get involved . Examples are everywhere , despite a massive , concerted media effort to tow the administration line and manufacture consent 70% of the country is against the Iraqi disaster , ( who you gonna believe ? Bushes rosy bullshit and the MSM’s sanitized “news” , or 4000 dead soldiers and a country in chaos ) , in spite of the MSM’s constant regurgitation of how great and strong the economy is , people know they’re working harder and have less to show for it than ever before , negative savings rate , foreclosure’s up , bankruptcies up , widest gap between rich and poor since the depression , people saw this and swapped demo’s for repubs . Too bad they haven’t evolved to the point of realizing they’re practically one and the same , but they’re waking up to that too ,gradually .Our system is broken and the corporations ,and unfettered , unregulated capitalism is responsible . For the record I think capitalism is the best form of government , history has bore this out . However ,a melding of corporation and government inevitably leads to fascism , history has also proven this . There must be a solid wall of separation between the corporation and our elected representatives . When an attorney gets elected , works to get favorable legislation passed for a corp. because a former rep. buys him beers and puts 2 grand in his re-election kitty , then loses an election or retires and goes to work for either a corp. he helped or goes to work on K-street for his drinking buddy , something is seriously wrong with the system .This economy and country are headed for a fall , PO assures this , there is mounting evidence that we would collapse even without PO , and possibly quite soon . The backbone of the country has been hollowed out , the middle class is disappearing under a crushing burden of debt ,ignorance and fatigue . The bread and circuses have turned into smoke and mirrors and more and more can see the man behind the curtain . You Plantain and Specop are nothing more than classic toadies . You are or believe you will be among the moneyed elite some day . If you’re already there then your arguments are nothing more than a transparent attempt to maintain your wealth , position and the status quo , if your not there yet you’re simply delusional , it has become increasingly difficult to BECOME wealthy in this country and neither of you seems to have the required qualities to amass wealth through your own efforts .

[TBroedsgaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TBroedsgaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

--U.S. Declaration of Independence

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jboogy', 'W')hen the former CEO of an oil services corp . can become vice-president and instigate a major war over false pretenses which will cost me and my descendants thousands of dollars in taxes plus expose me and mine to potentially violent repercussions in response to this war of choice , I’d say that infringes on my right to life and pursuit of happiness . When this same corp. receives a billion dollars in federal contracts , tax money that could go towards providing my children better books , better healthcare , better police and fire protection , a better opportunity at higher education , I’d say that corp. is infringing on my children’s rights .

[Plantagenet]

You are the little toadie, boog. Nontheless, lets see if we can agree on a very simple point.

Of course governments and corporations and even individuals can infringe on the rights of other people.

For instance, more than 100 million people were killed by leftist totalitarians using their control of state power to murder their own citizens within their own countries in the 20th century in their failed efforts to build "socialism." Do you agree that the victims' rights were seriously infringed upon when they were murdered?

[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', '
')Heh, perhaps.

Then again, is that true? up until a few years ago you could declare bankruptcy with limited liabilities left on your name. Can corporations kill a man and get away with it? No. Can you? Yes, actually. Assuming we're talking about the western world, anyway.

[Plantagenet]

[/quote=]
A corporation cannot kill a man on purpose and get away with it and neither can I, but they can kill a man accidentally and no particular person pays the price. That most probably wouldn't happen if it were me who had caused the incident.[/quote]

Thats not true.

Accidental death is ruled as the cause of death in accidents involving individual all the time, Grifter. Its by far the most common finding. For instance, there are tens of thousands of accidental deaths in car accidents EACH YEAR, and virtually all of them are ruled the result of accident....murder or manslaughter chargers are only brought when there was negligence (speeding, drunken driving etc.) that directly cuased the fatality and then only in very extreme cases.

[128shot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '[')/quote=]
A corporation cannot kill a man on purpose and get away with it and neither can I, but they can kill a man accidentally and no particular person pays the price. That most probably wouldn't happen if it were me who had caused the incident.

[Plantagenet]

Traffic accidents in LA caused by extreme street racing

"shooting the gap"

In a video game you can just push the reset button.

[jboogy]

I have no respect for people who race in traffic or even streets with a lot of houses on them . We had a saying when I was young , if you died alone when racing you were a hero , if you took someone with you, you were an asshole. We almost always raced late at night on Bergey rd. , nothing but manufacturing and no traffic . I admit though that occassionally something impromptu would happen at the wrong time on the wrong road, I'm thankfull that no one ever got hurt .Funny how you don't think of the possible consequences of your actions when your young.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Thats not true.

Accidental death is ruled as the cause of death in accidents involving individual all the time, Grifter. Its by far the most common finding. For instance, there are tens of thousands of accidental deaths in car accidents EACH YEAR, and virtually all of them are ruled the result of accident....murder or manslaughter chargers are only brought when there was negligence (speeding, drunken driving etc.) that directly cuased the fatality and then only in very extreme cases.

[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')
Wait, your saying accidental death is really the fault of the corporations?!

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')
Wait, your saying accidental death is really the fault of the corporations?!

[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')
Hmmm. Well call me ignorant, because I cant think of the last time a corporation was found guilty of manslaughter.