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THE Uranium Supply Thread pt 4 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby M_B_S » Sun 30 Sep 2007, 00:12:02

Wallstreet scans uranium supply

General conclusions of the analysis are:

1. After a 20-year period of dormancy, reactor orders are on the rise because of nuclear’s low operating costs, grid reliability, and zero carbon footprint. Nuclear may be the best new source of power for an electricity-hungry world. We see uranium demand growing by 2.5-3.0% per year between now and 2015. Developing countries, which today account for 15% of global uranium demand will account for 53% of incremental consumption in the period 2006-2020.

2. New uranium mine development was forgotten during uranium’s long price drought (1980-2003). That fact, combined with the “arsenal overhang” that resulted when Russia and the U.S. downblended nuclear warheads into utility fuel after the Cold War, gave the nuclear industry no reason to invest in new mines. Now miners are scrambling to keep up with demand. Given time, the supply problem will resolve itself, but that could be 10 years, as new mines are nearly as hard to authorize and build in many places, as are nuclear reactors.

3. Uranium supply (primary and secondary material) could fall short of demand by 14,000 tons per year out to 2012. The gap will be filled by inventory liquidation (enrichment tailings, ore tailings, and strategic stockpiles) and other tactics (perhaps longer refueling cycles) but uranium prices are likely to remain quite high – though very volatile – by historical standards. We believe than uranium yellowcake will trade in the $75-125 per pound level through the next several years, though it could easily spike or sag out of that range at least temporarily. http://resourcexinvestor.com/news.php?id=2304
***********************************************

OK lets have a look back to the year 1986 and we will see the pink elephant (enough uranium) again....IAEA report :!:

http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publicatio ... 95_web.pdf

Yes, the reality now is totally different from the past projections :!:

http://www.nea.fr/html/ndd/reports/2006 ... nglish.pdf

http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publicatio ... 04_scr.pdf

http://www.fraw.org.uk/mobbsey/papers/oies_article.pdf

http://www.world-nuclear.org/sym/2005/pdf/Maeda.pdf

http://www.world-nuclear.org/sym/2003/pdf/graul.pdf

http://www.naka.jaea.go.jp/SCI/Long-Ter ... Supply.pdf

http://www.gnr2.org/pdf/NF_20070618.pdf
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Anadultmale » Sun 30 Sep 2007, 17:29:27

Requesting?

Would like to interview Dr. Thomas Neff of MIT on Nuclear Power for youtube and general the press. It's about time to begin the real story to the people. After Cigar Lake then Cyclone George in Australia. The problems of U308 has been wild. What up? Can only be told by a few. The problem of supply and demand is at question.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 01 Oct 2007, 06:23:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anadultmale', 'R')equesting?

Would like to interview Dr. Thomas Neff of MIT on Nuclear Power for youtube and general the press. It's about time to begin the real story to the people. After Cigar Lake then Cyclone George in Australia. The problems of U308 has been wild. What up? Can only be told by a few. The problem of supply and demand is at question.


If you are serous I would suggest contacting the Dean of Sciences at MIT directly, normally you can fine the phone number and/or email online at the MIT home page.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Starvid » Tue 02 Oct 2007, 03:09:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')According to Hubbert, Peak Coal isn't for another century or two.

Recent studies seem to show that Hubbert got Peak Coal wrong. I guess it was because of the industrialization of Asia or because coal reserves have been radically downgraded in the last two decades.

Peak Coal is like ten times harder to predict than Peak Oil (even worse data, if imaginable), but if I have to pick an interval I say 2020-2050.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Dezakin » Tue 02 Oct 2007, 19:58:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s Peak Coal nearly as important as Peak Oil? I am not expert or anything, but I would think that with coal at least we have many other ways to produce electricity. Completely different animal (less critical) in my opinion.

Well, given that many estimate you can profitably produce diesel and gasoline from coal liquefaction whenever oil is above $30/bbl, peak coal is still important in the big picture; One might reasonably imagine that the majority of transport fuel will be coal based in 75 years.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Starvid » Wed 03 Oct 2007, 03:15:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')According to Hubbert, Peak Coal isn't for another century or two.

Recent studies seem to show that Hubbert got Peak Coal wrong. I guess it was because of the industrialization of Asia or because coal reserves have been radically downgraded in the last two decades.

Peak Coal is like ten times harder to predict than Peak Oil (even worse data, if imaginable), but if I have to pick an interval I say 2020-2050.


Is Peak Coal nearly as important as Peak Oil? I am not expert or anything, but I would think that with coal at least we have many other ways to produce electricity. Completely different animal (less critical) in my opinion.
It's not nearly as important from an economic point of view as there are, as you say, viable alternatives to coal already.

But it is very important from a climate perspective. Less coal (taken together with peak oil&gas) makes climate change far less daunting - there won't be so very much fossil fuel to burn even if we wanted too.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 03 Oct 2007, 06:08:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', '
')Is Peak Coal nearly as important as Peak Oil? I am not expert or anything, but I would think that with coal at least we have many other ways to produce electricity. Completely different animal (less critical) in my opinion.


Actually yes, if you look at the history of nitrogen fertilizers for agriculture you will see that it went manuer, guano, electric, coal, natural gas. With Natural Gas running out we will have to seek alternatives and the two most availible are electric (55% coal powered in the USA) or Coal directly.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby mkwin » Fri 05 Oct 2007, 11:28:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', '
')Is Peak Coal nearly as important as Peak Oil? I am not expert or anything, but I would think that with coal at least we have many other ways to produce electricity. Completely different animal (less critical) in my opinion.


Actually yes, if you look at the history of nitrogen fertilizers for agriculture you will see that it went manuer, guano, electric, coal, natural gas. With Natural Gas running out we will have to seek alternatives and the two most availible are electric (55% coal powered in the USA) or Coal directly.


It was suggested in Limits to Growth (30 year update) that organic farming, if done correctly, could produce the same yields as commercial farming.

On a side note, Uranium spot has fallen to $75.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby padisah » Fri 05 Oct 2007, 16:46:08

The ongoing or forming energy crisis on a broader perspective is not only just Peak Oil or Peak Coal, or eventually Peak Natural gas, but instead a shift from high eroi resources to low eroi resources. And that's exactly the main problem, how will the world's economy work, and survive if the eroi gets low, therfore the overall cost for energy becomes high?

And on the other hand if we choose the wrong pill, and go for coal, we will have the worst effects of a global warming with possibly a positive feedback. I never saw any analysis of the global warming after 2100, what will happen after that?

I personnal think that any carbon that is out in the ocean + atmosphere pair is free, and it will not disappear. There are no high scale chemical or biological processes that would eliminate CO2 from these two, while we have a good chance to trigger the oceans to let the CO2 out, that is right now 19 times more than in the atmosphere. This is a dangerous game.
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Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium exports

Unread postby Denny » Sat 03 Nov 2007, 14:17:08

I follow the Canadian miner Cameco, thankfully I don't own shares, its had its rough times with its main mine, and now this. Cameco is a processor of recovered uranium from Russia's nuclear stockpile. They had a long term deal wiht Russia for the pricing, but now if looks like Russia is having second thoughts on that. I guess governments of all stripes are not known for keeping their word. I like this wording, see Marketwire

The wording is so diplomatic, yet extortionate at the same time: "SASKATOON, SASKATCHEWAN--(Marketwire - Oct. 31, 2007) - Cameco Corporation (TSX:CCO) (NYSE:CCJ) reports that the Joint Stock Company Techsnabexport (Tenex) has requested discussions regarding the pricing structure for the last few years of the remaining term of the commercial agreement to purchase uranium derived from dismantled Russian nuclear weapons."

I'd like to be a fly on the wall of those "discussions". I also wonder if the next few years will be rough in Europe, if Russia decides to "discuss" export prices for natural gas.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Fri 13 Mar 2009, 09:58:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Uranium Thread.
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby dissident » Sat 03 Nov 2007, 23:31:06

Deals made under the rule of dictator Yeltsin are not legitimate. The west's whinging about changes to "sell the house for a song" deals for Russia's natural resources are getting tiresome. Currently Russia sells natural gas for less than 40% of the crude oil price on joule for joule basis. And natural gas is already a refined product that is a feedstock for the chemical industry so the price is really less than 30% of the level it should be fairly set at. Yet the bitching is shrill enough that one would think the price was 300% of the fair level.

Now that world Uranium prices are increasing in response to demand, all long term deals that lock the price at some absurdly low level should be scrapped. The real problem is governments making stupid long term deals. Natural resources should be priced at market levels, this is the only way that their use will be regulated. Imagine what would happen if oil was fixed at $10 per barrel. The world economy would ride the oil train right off the edge of a cliff since no incentives would exist for conservation and the development of alternatives.
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 01:50:25

It seems that Uranium is becoming too valuable to be wasted on mass murder (eg. Hiroshima & Nagasaki).
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 01:58:02

I was under the impression that natural gas prices were set by the market, not individual sellers.

If Russia wants to sell its NG for below market prices (like it does with some Eastern European countries) it can continue to do so and hold that subsidy as leverage.

But the day it charges market rates...that leverage vanishes.

If Russia tried to charge twice as much as the market rate, LNG would put Putin out of business.
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 03:27:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f Russia tried to charge twice as much as the market rate, LNG would put Putin out of business.
If Qatar had lots of LNG tankers and US had lots of LNG ports. And pigs had wings.
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 04 Nov 2007, 17:06:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f Russia tried to charge twice as much as the market rate, LNG would put Putin out of business.
If Qatar had lots of LNG tankers and US had lots of LNG ports. And pigs had wings.


And why can't LNG ports/LNG tankers be built?
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 03:20:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f Russia tried to charge twice as much as the market rate, LNG would put Putin out of business.
If Qatar had lots of LNG tankers and US had lots of LNG ports. And pigs had wings.


And why can't LNG ports/LNG tankers be built?
They're being planned, but when do you think they will catch up with declining NA production? I haven't seen any quantitative predictions.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:37:06

Peak Uranium in Australia

Data here:

http://civil.eng.monash.edu.au/about/st ... Master.pdf

see

p. 145 => Peak Uranium in Australia was in 2005 :!:

q.e.d.

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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby matt21811 » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 20:56:10

Australia has a "3 mines" policy. This means the government only allows 3 uranium mines to run in all of Australia at this time. The market wants 10 to 15. Calling peak uranium in Autralia is pure ignorance.
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Re: Russia putting heat on pricing of recovered uranium expo

Unread postby dissident » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 11:38:05

No, natural gas prices are set by contract unlike oil. This is partly due to the fact that oil does not require a pipeline system for delivery. As for LNG, Qatar has 23.7 trillion cubic meters of natural gas reserves. The EU consumed 486 billion cubic meters in 2006. North America consumes nearly 800 billion cubic meters per year. Qatar exported 31.09 billion cubic metres of LNG in 2006. By 2010 Qatar is planning to increase it LNG capacity by a factor of 2.6. Shipping 79.8 bcm by 2010 ain't going to remove demand for Russian natural gas. In fact, the declining production in NA and EU is going to increase the demand since Qatar cannot cover the decline in production and increase in demand.
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Re: Uranium Supply

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 13 Dec 2007, 03:16:37

Here I am again

ASPO: Hubbert Curve for minerals :!:


Thesis:

Peak Oil = Peak Minerals (Uranium etc.)



Hubbert Curves for Minerals ASPO



PEAK OIL = PEAK URANIUM

Imagine the Impact
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