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100mb up to 2020?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

100mb up to 2020?

Postby skyemoor » Wed 26 Sep 2007, 17:01:29

Some attendees at Cork noted that a number of presenters thought production could reach 100mb, and the peak date of 2020 was predicted. Anyone else hear the same thing and know who said what?
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby americandream » Wed 26 Sep 2007, 19:12:34

Why not 120mb...or 200 mb for that matter?
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby raober » Wed 26 Sep 2007, 20:12:21

Okay...when did we start measuring oil in millibars? :P

I haven't been PO aware long, but even I know that 100 mbpd ain't gonna happen.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby mkwin » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 05:25:49

The guy who suggested that at ASPO was a PFC anaylst who had just undertaken a comprehensive supply forecast.

He was pretty optimistic on Russia and heavy oil. I was under the impression Russia was topping out but he is the expert and had access to the data so who knows.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Graeme » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 05:30:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he case for a plateau in global oil production of less than 100M barrels/day before 2020 was put by Ray Leonard, Vice President (Eurasia) of Kuwait Energy Company, who presented a summary of the results from the Hedberg Conference [3]. The Hedberg conference concluded that there were about 250 B barrels of conventional oil yet-to-find, 200 -1000 B barrels will be available from reserves growth, and future production from unconventional oil [4] is unlikely to exceed 6 Mb/d. Taking all these factors into account, Leonard forecast that global oil production will plateau at less than 100 M barrels/ day before 2020. This forecast was reiterated by Mike Rodgers, Senior Partner with the highly respected US-based energy consultancy PFC Energy.


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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Madpaddy » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 06:06:21

The above is all true. Global oil production will plateau at less than 100m barrels per day before 2020.

In fact it did plateau at 85mbpd in 2006. That is before 2020 and is less than 100mbpd.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby skyemoor » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 06:59:29

Thanks Graeme, this puts it in the proper perspective.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby TonyPrep » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 07:29:50

Why is it assumed that the yet-to-find 250 billion barrels will all be found in the near term, allowing some further production increases? If those extra barrels are found in tiny increments over the next 50 years, for example, surely they would have no, or little, effect on the peak date.

With a plateau over the last couple of years (and the associated declines in producing fields during that time) at around 85 mbpd, is there really much chance of reaching anywhere near 100 mbpd?
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Graeme » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 08:12:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he second group agreed with the reserve figures quoted, but said that due to constraints in implementing new projects such as lack of skilled staff, resource nationalism and oil depletion, global oil production was likely to peak rather than plateau no later than 2011.

Now that this analysis is backed up by the IEA’s recent forecast that we are facing a global supply crunch by 2012, we have to start asking why our governments are not treating the oil supply issue with an increased sense of urgency.”


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It appears that for the moment governments believe the PFC Energy group because very little action is being taken to mitigate 2011-2012 peak oil date.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby mkwin » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 09:07:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'W')hy is it assumed that the yet-to-find 250 billion barrels will all be found in the near term, allowing some further production increases? If those extra barrels are found in tiny increments over the next 50 years, for example, surely they would have no, or little, effect on the peak date.

With a plateau over the last couple of years (and the associated declines in producing fields during that time) at around 85 mbpd, is there really much chance of reaching anywhere near 100 mbpd?


We have discovered on average 11 billion barrels a year over the last decade. It was 16 billion barrels in 2006. Obviously less than we consume but not exactly tiny either.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby TonyPrep » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 09:32:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'W')hy is it assumed that the yet-to-find 250 billion barrels will all be found in the near term, allowing some further production increases? If those extra barrels are found in tiny increments over the next 50 years, for example, surely they would have no, or little, effect on the peak date.

With a plateau over the last couple of years (and the associated declines in producing fields during that time) at around 85 mbpd, is there really much chance of reaching anywhere near 100 mbpd?


We have discovered on average 11 billion barrels a year over the last decade. It was 16 billion barrels in 2006. Obviously less than we consume but not exactly tiny either.
A lot less than we consume. And with an average of 11 billion over the last 10 years, the 16 billion appears to be a large anomaly. Are you implying that the average will stay the same, or even increase, until all 250 billion barrels are discovered?

What I was querying was whether those 250 billion barrels of yet-to-be discovered oil will be discovered at a rate sufficient to help increase production or to otherwise affect the peak date. There appears to be an assumption that they will, but why? It could be that the best they can do is slow the decline.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby peripato » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 10:01:03

So let me picture this. Existing production is declining by around 4 to 5% p.a which means we must find and replace over 40 million barrels of oil per day, plus produce at least an additional 15 to 20 million barrels per day to keep up with the then projected demand in 2020. Hmmm....it looks like they just forecast what the likely demand would be by then and worked backwards from there.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby mkwin » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 11:12:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ')increase, until all 250 billion barrels are discovered?

What I was querying was whether those 250 billion barrels of yet-to-be discovered oil will be discovered at a rate sufficient to help increase production or to otherwise affect the peak date. There appears to be an assumption that they will, but why? It could be that the best they can do is slow the decline.


If you read the article, his point about 250 billion barrels is that is it far less than the USGS estimate (circa 750 billions barrels).

One speaker also spoke about EOR and how this could make another 10% of TOIP available at a higher cost. This is an addition al 600 billion barrels but it won't occur until after peak. When he says higher costs he means 4.5x the base cost. So if offshore is $20 base, we are talking $95 extraction cost. Clearly these projects won't be implmented until oil is $120+.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby aahala » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 11:56:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'T')he above is all true. Global oil production will plateau at less than 100m barrels per day before 2020.

In fact it did plateau at 85mbpd in 2006. That is before 2020 and is less than 100mbpd.


If this is your opinion, all's right with me. If this is a claim,
it's not. I'm from Missouri. Show me the goods.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Madpaddy » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 16:46:43

aahala,

Read it and weep baby.

BP Statistical Energy Review [converted long URL to link - skyemoor]
Production – barrels'!A1

It doesn't prove conclusively that oil peaked in 2006 but you can see the tail off in oil production increases. Sorry that the charts are awkward to view.

If you go to the tab oil production barrels, you can see that from 2003 to 2004, production increased from 77mbpd to 80mbpd. From 2005 to 2006, production increased from 81.25mbpd to 81.63mbpd, a very slight increase.

Meanwhile if you go to the oil consumption tab, you can see that from 2003 to 2006, consumption increased from 79mbpd to 83.79mbpd.

Note:Differences between these world consumption figures and world production statistics are accounted for by stock changes, consumption of non-petroleum additives.

But basically, our consumption habit is writing cheques our production can't cash (to paraphrase some movie that I can't remember)
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby aahala » Fri 28 Sep 2007, 11:09:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'a')ahala,

Read it and weep baby.



My apologies to you for not making my objection clearer.

I have no trouble with describing 2006 as a plateau. I think
it a fair description of the oil production data.

My objection was this sentence:

"Global oil production will plateau at less than 100m barrels per day before 2020."

You posted it this month. It's a claim about the future,
a prediction of future events, just like the predictions in the
original article of the thread.

You're the claimant. It's your responsibility to provide evidence
sufficient for acceptance, if you want us to accept it. How is
a plateau in the past prove oil will plateau again in the future
by the year 2020 and below a certain level.

We had a much longer period of flat production in the 1989-1994
period, yet production then rose. It's not specifically stated, but
I think it's fair to describe the statements in the thread and the
articles as believing once oil plateaus, oil production will never
again exceed that level.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Madpaddy » Fri 28 Sep 2007, 11:17:02

aahala,

You are right of course.

It is my strongly held opinion that oil production will never exceed the production level of 2006.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby gnm » Fri 28 Sep 2007, 11:22:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'I')t is my strongly held opinion that oil production will never exceed the production level of 2006.


I will second that. The evidence points strongly to permanent decline from here out. Something also worth looking at is the export land model by the poster "westtexas" on TOD also... That one will twist your knickers....

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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Smudger » Fri 28 Sep 2007, 11:25:04

The film quote is from Top Gun "son your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash"

I believe we are on a plateau and think the real drops will begin 2008-2012. A wide window but never underestimate human efforts to keep things going if at all possible.
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Re: 100mb up to 2020?

Postby Madpaddy » Fri 28 Sep 2007, 11:29:33

Thanks Smudger,

Top Gun - the movie that caused me to pursue a career as a pilot which was never fulfilled. Got my PPL but that was it. How could I forget. I thought it might have been "An Officer and a Gentleman" but thanks for that.

I'll check out that report gnm.
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