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Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

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Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 14:29:29

Cue the Iraqi information minister and the line about the subprime mess being "contained", and that the overall health of the economy is "immune" to the fallout.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ed to Cut Rates Again Before January, History Shows

By Elizabeth Stanton

Sept. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Government bond traders, who predicted six of the last seven recessions, say the Federal Reserve will lower interest rates again before the end of the year as the economy comes to a standstill.

Since the Fed last week lopped half a percentage point off the central bank's target for overnight lending between banks -- the first orchestrated decline in so-called federal funds since 2003 -- traders have pushed the yield on Treasury two-year notes to almost three quarters of a point below the designated 4.75 percent funds rate. In the three previous occasions during the past 20 years when that has happened, policy makers have cut borrowing costs.

"The U.S. economy needs to grow at 2.5 to 3 percent or else it stalls,'' said Bill Gross, manager of the $104.4 billion Total Return Fund, the world's biggest bond fund. "Historically every time we get close to stall speed the Fed lowers short rates."

...

The economy's mortgage-related problems are "not behind us today and they're not going to be behind us for a long time to come,'' Hunt said. "This rate reduction was first of what we think will be quite a few over the next couple of years."
...
Bloomberg
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:00:57

Another US interest rate cut will drive the dollar down even further. 8)
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby dukey » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:25:51

exactly
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby roccman » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:36:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')nother US interest rate cut will drive the dollar down even further. 8)


Of the nearly 2000 post you made...this is the only one i agree with.

Here's another truth...

as oil goes up the dollar will go down.

and one last one for old time sakes:

as the dollar goes down and oil goes up...gold also goes up...

Red rover red rover send PA right over :)
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:44:04

i think they will do it as early as their oct 31 meeting...what better day to scare the hell out of people than halloween
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:57:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')nother US interest rate cut will drive the dollar down even further. 8)


Of the nearly 2000 post you made...this is the only one i agree with.

Here's another truth...

as oil goes up the dollar will go down.


and one last one for old time sakes:

as the dollar goes down and oil goes up...gold also goes up...

Red rover red rover send PA right over :)


I think you might be putting the chart before the horse on this one.:razz:

A drop in the dollar leads to an increase in the price of oil, not the other way around.

If Iran suddenly stopped exporting oil (a supply shock), oil prices would increase and demand for dollars would increase. Non-Americans would have to pay more in dollar terms for oil and those dollars would cost more.

Independent of oil supply/demand, a drop in the value of the US Dollar leads to an increase in oil prices in order to maintain the same global value for the commodity.

But an increase in the price of oil as measured in dollars by itself would not lead to a decrease in demand for US dollars in the global currency markets. As I mentioned earlier, the dollar might actually strengthen because foreign countries would need to purchase more dollars in order to purchase the same amount of oil.

The only possible cause and effect between High Oil---->Low Dollar is if the current account deficit of the USA increases dramatically as a result of high prices for imported oil, resulting in more dollars on the global marketplace. This is an important factor but it doesn't account for the massive losses in the Dollar Index over the past half decade or so.
Last edited by Tyler_JC on Mon 24 Sep 2007, 22:34:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby roccman » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 16:05:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')nother US interest rate cut will drive the dollar down even further. 8)


Of the nearly 2000 post you made...this is the only one i agree with.

Here's another truth...

as oil goes up the dollar will go down.


and one last one for old time sakes:

as the dollar goes down and oil goes up...gold also goes up...

Red rover red rover send PA right over :)


I think you might be putting the chart before the horse on this one.

A drop in the dollar leads to an increase in the price of oil, not the other way around.

If Iran suddenly stopped exporting oil (a supply shock), oil prices would increase and demand for dollars would increase. Non-Americans would have to pay more in dollar terms for oil and those dollars would cost more.

Independent of oil supply/demand, a drop in the value of the US Dollar leads to an increase in oil prices in order to maintain the same global value for the commodity.

But an increase in the price of oil as measured in dollars by itself would not lead to a decrease in demand for US dollars in the global currency markets. As I mentioned earlier, the dollar might actually strengthen because foreign countries would need to purchase more dollars in order to purchase the same amount of oil.

The only possible cause and effect between High Oil---->Low Dollar is if the current account deficit of the USA increases dramatically as a result of high prices for imported oil, resulting in more dollars on the global marketplace. This is an important factor but it doesn't account for the massive losses in the Dollar Index over the past half decade or so.


Ok agreed Tyler...same result in the end, but you are correct.
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 16:09:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

If so, I wander when Europe is going to be flooded with American nurses, plumbers and childminders?
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby skeptik » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 17:10:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

If so, I wander when Europe is going to be flooded with American nurses, plumbers and childminders?


Honest answer? When they'll work cheaper than the Zimbabwean nurses, Peruvian plumbers and Philipino childminders who are already here.

('Peruvian plumbers' are in Spain. Lots of South American building tradespeople working here. Nordamericanos would be at a competitive disadvantage in that most dont speak Spanish. Not that it matters - as in the USA, the housing bubble in Spain is bursting. Soon the Peruvian plumbers will be heading elsewhere.)
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby Twilight » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 17:40:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I')f so, I wander when Europe is going to be flooded with American nurses, plumbers and childminders?

You realise the culture change that would have to take place in the US? It would mean not only losing one's job, but abandoning one hell of an emotional investment. Then they would be ready to prepare themselves for the massive pay cut.
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby smiley » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 17:50:51

I wonder what kind of decline is needed to cause a bailout of the dollar.

I don't see entities like Japan or China pulling the plug. There is too much at stake for them..

So far the most US investments have risen faster than the dollar declined, but I wonder, whether that still be the case if you have a slowdown in the economy combined with rate cuts and liquidity injections.

If so wouldn't the non-US investors just walk out?
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby frankthetank » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 18:54:39

Germany i'm coming home! Like the Mayflower in reverse, except this time i'm taking a cruise ship back! Is the US government trying to get the prices of everything to move sharply higher so then people will be FORCED to buy less? or are they trying to get goods abroad to be cheaper so people in France and Germany can buy more? I don't get this currency stuff, too complicated. Barter system would suck too... Maybe we should pay in handjobs? :) :)
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 00:35:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')A drop in the dollar leads to an increase in the price of oil


I agree this is the obvious relationship. Oil priced in Dollars gets more expensive as the dollar goes down. However...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '
')as oil goes up the dollar will go down.


I agree this is also true however on a much more subtle level. The US being the #1 consumer of oil will be the hardest hit on an economic basis to price increases. Basically they buy the most and will spend the most to get that amount. This could be viewed as weakening the economy and therefore we'll get those handout rate cuts to help keep us out of recession. Of course this drops the value of the dollar which increases the price of oil...

Really nasty circle we're stuck in there. There is a way out though. Simply find and pump more crude to flood the market and drop the price. Not a problem if we haven't really peaked. If we have well then at least it's almost over.
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 03:10:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skeptik', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

If so, I wander when Europe is going to be flooded with American nurses, plumbers and childminders?


Honest answer? When they'll work cheaper than the Zimbabwean nurses, Peruvian plumbers and Philipino childminders who are already here.

That may not be so simple.
American nurse is in all probabilities better educated and skilled than Zimbabwean one because of more practice in modern environment, so she (or s/he, if one wish to be PC) is worth more on a job market.
With plumbers, well Peruvian Pedro and American Joe are probably worth about the same, but in case of childminder or all purpose domestic servant - I would certainly pay more for Philipino. After all Philipinos are in general more "domesticated" women then American.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')oon the Peruvian plumbers will be heading elsewhere

Hint: It will be United Kingdom - plumbers paradise, where one of my friends had paid GBP 150 for replacing old toilet bowl with a new one (undoing 2 screws from an old one, fitting new 2 screws with new and pressing back pipe with a seal is all what was needed. Entire procedure had taken about 15 min...).
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby Specop_007 » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 13:31:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'G')ermany i'm coming home! Like the Mayflower in reverse, except this time i'm taking a cruise ship back! Is the US government trying to get the prices of everything to move sharply higher so then people will be FORCED to buy less? or are they trying to get goods abroad to be cheaper so people in France and Germany can buy more? I don't get this currency stuff, too complicated. Barter system would suck too... Maybe we should pay in handjobs? :) :)


My wife would be rich!
She gives a mean handjob.

:-D
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 16:13:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'G')ermany i'm coming home! Like the Mayflower in reverse, except this time i'm taking a cruise ship back! Is the US government trying to get the prices of everything to move sharply higher so then people will be FORCED to buy less? or are they trying to get goods abroad to be cheaper so people in France and Germany can buy more? I don't get this currency stuff, too complicated. Barter system would suck too... Maybe we should pay in handjobs? :) :)


My wife would be rich!
She gives a mean handjob.

:-D


Yes she does.









:razz:

Specop, you don't spend nearly enough time on here anymore. :(
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 16:26:55

What Specop fails to mention is a hand job, in his case, means a well deserved karate chop to the head or genitals. My compliments to your wife.
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 17:05:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')Specop, you don't spend nearly enough time on here anymore. :(


Well if your wife gave a mean handjob, would you bother to post on the myspace of doomers? :razz:

(Now can we get back on topic?)
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Re: Fed to cut rates AGAIN before Jan 2008

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 27 Sep 2007, 20:33:51

Stock investors are speculating that further rate cuts are imminent.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ept. 27 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. stock market rose to the highest since July as investors speculated a drop in new home sales will give the Federal Reserve more reason to lower interest rates.
...
The Dow average climbed to within 0.7 percent of a record after the biggest plunge in new home prices in almost four decades spurred expectations policy makers will continue to lower borrowing costs to stem an economic slowdown. The S&P 500 has rallied an average 15 percent during periods when the Fed was reducing interest rates, according to data going back to 1945 compiled by Bespoke Investment Group LLC.
...
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