[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('entropyfails', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'b')ut in the case of simply bombarding salt water with radio waves, where is the anode?, where is the cathode? and what is the polarity? - which direction is the electron flow?

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'W')hat is interesting is the fucking robust flame coming out of a test tube full of seawater by a means not previously known.

[Carlhole]

Renowned scientist lauds Kanzius' invention

[quote="Erie-Times News via Yahoo Groups"]By GEORGE MILLER george.miller@timesnews.com

A materials scientist is heated up over the effect of John Kanzius' external radio-wave generator on salt water. "It is scientifically a staggeringly important discovery", said Rustum Roy, a leading authority on microwave applications on materials technology.

Roy was in Erie on Thursday to view experiments with the radio-wave generator at Industrial Sales and Manufacturing Inc., the Millcreek company that builds Kanzius' generator. In the experiments, a test tube of salt water creates a flame when bombarded by the generator.

It will certainly shape a lot of science, said Roy, who founded the Materials Science Laboratory at Pennsylvania State University. It will tell us a lot more about the structure of water than anything in 100 years. It's a big, big contribution to the science of water.

Roy, a Penn State professor emeritus, still teaches some classes there and oversees research. He has done studies on the structure of water. He is also a visiting professor of medicine at the University of Arizona and distinguished professor of materials at Arizona State University. He spends his winters in Arizona.

Kanzius said Roy was the first outside expert in water to view the demonstration. It was sink-or-swim time for the project, Kanzius said. Kanzius said he is pleased with the assessment, especially because there have been skeptics. To hear a world authority give such a rave review is phenomenal, he said. It's more than we ever expected to hear from him today. I expected him to hit me on the head with a sledgehammer and say, "Wake up!"

Kanzius, a Millcreek inventor and a former television and radio broadcaster and engineer, built the radio-wave generator in 2003 as a way of treating cancer. The cancer research, he said, is going fullspeed ahead.

He found the generator's effect on salt water by a fluke during a demonstration in the fall of 2006 and has been exploring its use as an alternative energy source since then.

Roy said the Kanzius' discovery has scientific value in itself and also has the potential to create an alternative energy source and perhaps even to benefit medicine beyond cancer.

Where its applications lead is hard to tell,â€

[HorneyGeekBoi]

The problem these days is people think that energy that comes out of that hole in the wall is free, abundant and unlimited... If your energy "source" depends on that hole, you are out of luck... I dont blame humans for not understanding, we have such a limited POV, and most of us dont understand physics, chemistry, electricity and how power plants work in depth...

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HorneyGeekBoi', '.')..most of us dont understand physics, chemistry, electricity and how power plants work in depth...

[Ming]

This is simply another hoax.

He claims “over unit” energy, and the physics are obviously impossible.
That is itself is enough.

But in this case, all the associated “hoax” signs are there.
I will point just one:
Why a “sink-or-swim” moment?
Isn’t it producing “over unit” energy?
Isn’t cancer research (please! ) going ahead quite well?
So, why does "validation" (only referring to an interesting effect on water - nothing about energy) from 1 gullible old man make that difference?

But I could refer several other points that also disprove the thing:
The classic “news blackout”, the typical background of the “inventor” (a TV presenter! LOL ), the catchy "cancer stuff", the funny "steam engine" gizmo, the shady company he created, the fact that no one is reproducing the results around the world… (Face it: would it be so difficult for serious researchers in well equipped university labs to reproduce the full effect of microwaves over salt water that a TV presenter “invented”?)

That guy is just another OBVIOUS con artist, in the line of hundreds that try to earn their living with these hare brained schemes…

[Carlhole]

It wasn't obviously a hoax to this guy...

Rustum Roy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wiki', 'R')ustum Roy (born July 3, 1924) is a materials scientist, science policy analyst, advocate of interdisciplinary education and alternative medicine, and science and religion. Roy holds professorships in materials science at Arizona State University and in medicine at the University of Arizona, as well as emeritus honors at Pennsylvania State University (Penn State) in three fields.

Roy was born, and received both BS and MS degrees in chemistry in India. He earned a Ph.D. in ceramics at Penn State in 1948, and became an American citizen in 1961. He had a long career at Penn State in geochemistry and materials science. He founded the Materials Science Laboratory at Penn State and authored hundreds of technical papers. Roy is a member of the National Academy of Engineering and has received many professional awards and honors.

[Ming]

He can come here and read it...
But anyway his background is VERY far from credible.
I am glad that you found that:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ustum Roy (born July 3, 1924) is a materials scientist, science policy analyst, advocate of interdisciplinary education and alternative medicine, and science and religion.

[Carlhole]

It's my understanding from reading the Yahoo Groups stuff, that Kanzius has lately acknowledged that the EROEI is less than one, which is not surprising. He had earlier made a comment about it being greater than one but, like I said, these were just comments. Kanzius had not been making that explicit claim in any strong way. And there hadn't been any independent testing of the input/output energy. Nor was energy the primary thrust of Kanzius' research in the first place.

Nevertheless, that doesn't shed any light on how efficient a splitter of water molecules his Effect might be. So it's just a very curious thing at this point. All energy considerations aside, I'd never heard of anything like the Kanzius Effect before. From the video, it does indeed appear that a large flame is being produced from the saltwater, a much larger flame than one would expect if electrolysis were being used (although it's impossible to know much just from watching a video). So it's just curious and newsworthy.

But then, following up on the story, I learn that a credentialed PSU Materials Science Professor with degrees in Chemistry has recently taken an up-close look at Kanzius' set up and this trained expert, founder of the Materials Science Lab at Penn State, claims that the Kanzius Effect is indeed something remarkable. Well, that's obviously newsworthy too.

It's not as good as putting the whole PeakOil.com membership on buses to go take a look for themselves, but at least it's a couple of trained eyeballs evaluating the Kanzius Effect for us. His qualifications would certainly enable him to detect a magician's trick.

Of course, this pissing contest where you impugn an expert of considerable tenure and reputation so as to argue a point - that's the amateurish way most arguments here on PO.com are conducted.

By that logic, shouldn't we all be wondering about your (Ming's) credentials which allow you to supercede the credentials of Rustum Roy and deny his observations without having viewed the Kanzius apparatus up close yourself? Put your extensive CV online for us! Hop on a plane and go visit Kanzius yourself! Go find the trap door where the rabbit disappears!

[Ming]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y that logic, shouldn't we all be wondering about your (Ming's) credentials which allow you to supercede the credentials of Rustum Roy and deny his observations without having viewed the Kanzius apparatus up close yourself? Put your extensive CV online for us! Hop on a plane and go visit Kanzius yourself! Go find the trap door where the rabbit disappears!

[nth]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}

I will gag myself laughing if this actually solves our PO problem.

Radio frequencies help burn salt water

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'I') will gag myself laughing if this actually solves our PO problem.

Radio frequencies help burn salt water

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

[Windmills]

Assuming the idea worked, it would solve the hydrogen storage problem, since you could just carry a tank of water. The water would then be streamed off, radio zapped, and then burned in some kind of engine...which means you'd have to carry an equivalent amount of energy, or more, in terms of breaking water bonds by batteries to power your radio device. Which would be silly, since if you can carry enough energy to break down water just to build it back up again, you should just skip the water altogether and make a much more efficient electric car out of the contraption. Why make make an extra energy transformation and load on extra weight just because you want to cling to the ICE?

False alarm. Go back to the temple. This is not the Technomessiah, it's only another guy with a cardboard sign that actually just wants a beer.

I wonder what generating that much radio power would do to our communication systems.

[mos6507]

It's just another perpetual motion dead-end.

[dbruning]

For cars this doesn't sound like it would do the job, but what about power stations next to the ocean?

It would be nice if the amount of power generated by burning seawater was enough to generate the radio frequencies needed plus a surplus. We could shield it against messing up with communications.

Well, it wouldn't help with a ton of other problems, but it might help the energy crunch issues.

Or it might help our overshoot reach even more spectacular heights?

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'A')ssuming the idea worked, it would solve the hydrogen storage problem, since you could just carry a tank of water. The water would then be streamed off, radio zapped, and then burned in some kind of engine...which means you'd have to carry an equivalent amount of energy, or more, in terms of breaking water bonds by batteries to power your radio device. Which would be silly, since if you can carry enough energy to break down water just to build it back up again, you should just skip the water altogether and make a much more efficient electric car out of the contraption. Why make make an extra energy transformation and load on extra weight just because you want to cling to the ICE?

[lys3rg0]

Hasn't this already been discussed in enough detail? I think the first edition of this story is where someone posted a cool youtube vid of microwaving grapes... so unless you can beat that, let the thread die with dignity

[Graeme]

{topics merged by moderators}

Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')n Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.

John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.

The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

[Eli]

[eastbay]

10-4 Eli. You are 10-2. We have already responded to several calls from that location. There's absolutely nothing to report. It's just another crank call. Expect more. Over.