[Doly]

I don't think becoming farmers is a realistic possibility to many people here. But if we're thinking there's going to be an economic depression (and that sounds reasonably likely), growing some vegetables in your garden (or even in flowerpots) can help. Food may get expensive enough and you may be poor enough that a little variety brought by the stuff you grow yourself may make a significant difference in your quality of life.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't think becoming farmers is a realistic possibility to many people here. But if we're thinking there's going to be an economic depression (and that sounds reasonably likely), growing some vegetables in your garden (or even in flowerpots) can help. Food may get expensive enough and you may be poor enough that a little variety brought by the stuff you grow yourself may make a significant difference in your quality of life.

[TommyJefferson]

On July 4, 1986 I attended Willie Nelson's Farm Aid concert in Austin, Texas.

With the help of the Federal Government and the glory of National Socialism, we've come a long way from back in 1986 when the family farm almost went extinct.

The red dots on this map of Manhattan indicate people who receive agricultural subsidies from the federal government.



God bless those poor farmers in Manhattan. They will be the ones who save Nueva York during the next disaster there. The poor can line up at the doors of these farmers and receive a basket of fruit and vegetables to get them through the hard times.

From: National Review

[lotrfan55345]

Oooh, lots on the Upper East Side, I see.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '
')God bless those poor farmers in Manhattan. They will be the ones who save Nueva York during the next disaster there. The poor can line up at the doors of these farmers and receive a basket of fruit and vegetables to get them through the hard times.

From: National Review

[Bas]

ah, yes, farming must be very difficult on Manhattan, and the land is so expensive too... I'm glad those poor bastards are getting some help from the government in what would otherwise be an impossible job

Seriously, I think agricultural subsidies can be abandoned soon enough the way the prices for crops are going up, which in economic theory will help poor countries to develop (for years Western agricultural subsidies have been blamed for suppressing prices on the world market and therefor robbing poor countries that rely heavily on agriculture from their chances to develop)

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'a')h, yes, farming must be very difficult on Manhattan, and the land is so expensive too... I'm glad those poor bastards are getting some help from the government in what would otherwise be an impossible job

Seriously, I think agricultural subsidies can be abandoned soon enough the way the prices for crops are going up, which in economic theory will help poor countries to develop (for years Western agricultural subsidies have been blamed for suppressing prices on the world market and therefor robbing poor countries that rely heavily on agriculture from their chances to develop)

[Ache]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/ ... -Talks.php

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he United States took the first bold step in a week of crunch-time trade talks Tuesday, slicing $1.4 billion from a previous offer to limit contentious, trade-distorting subsidies to American farmers.

U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab said Washington is prepared to rewrite elements of its recently passed farm bill to ensure that U.S. subsidies deemed to unfairly enhance the competitiveness of American farmers are limited to $15 billion annually.

While Congress may view the move skeptically, the Bush administration's top trade negotiator shifted pressure on Brazil, India and other emerging economies to open up their markets for industrial goods — a key demand of rich countries in the World Trade Organization's seven-year trade round.

But those countries refused to budge during a seven-hour negotiating session that was at times hostile and ended with WTO chief Pascal Lamy postponing a follow-up meeting scheduled for Wednesday, trade officials said.

Emerging countries have demanded a subsidy cap closer to $12 billion for the United States, noting that U.S. subsidies have fallen to around $9 billion annually amid higher prices for basic commodities.

The poorer countries say the payments give rich-world farmers an unfair competitive advantage that hinders Third World development. But the Bush administration — and Congress — have sought flexibility in case crop prices fall and American farmers need greater support.

Washington is currently allowed to distribute over $48 billion in subsidies linked to price, production and other trade-distorting criteria. It agreed last year to come to at least below $16.4 billion in a move that generated criticism from American farm groups. The European Union and Japan are also offering steep cuts in subsidy limits.

"Anyone who understands farm programs will understand how significant the reduction is implied by this number," said Schwab, noting that U.S. subsidies have exceeded her proposed limit in seven of the last 10 years.

Without a global trade deal that includes the new U.S. offer, they may exceed $15 billion again as part of the United States' new, five-year farm bill worth nearly $300 billion that Congress passed over President Bush's veto.

In a news conference, Schwab described the concession as a "major move, taken in good faith, with the expectation that others will reciprocate and step forward with improved market access" for farm and industrial exports.

Rich and poor countries have clashed repeatedly in the WTO talks launched in Qatar's capital in 2001, now known as the Doha round. Developing nations want agricultural tariffs and subsidies in rich countries to come down so they can sell more of their produce, while the U.S., European Union and others seek better conditions in emerging economies for their manufacturers, banks, insurers and telecommunications companies.

Negotiators are hoping for agreement this week on a deal that would liberalize world agriculture and manufacturing, setting the stage for an overall trade accord by the end of the year. But there is widespread skepticism.

Schwab said her move showed real leadership.

"Here's the catch: We are making this offer without actually knowing what others will do," she said at WTO headquarters in Geneva. "For this round to succeed as a developing round, all of the main developed and emerging-market players will be faced with hard decisions."

Brazil and India will now have to face those. As co-leaders of a broad coalition of developing countries, they have dug in their heels against cuts in manufacturing tariffs that would create new opportunities for makers of cars, machinery and electronics from the U.S., Europe and Japan.

Brazil said it had not offered any concessions, and instead criticized the U.S. offer for not going far enough.

"I hope this is not the last offer," Foreign Minister Celso Amorim said. "It's a very low level of ambition."

On Monday, EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson made his opening pitch by offering to raise to 60 percent the average cut for European agricultural tariffs.

While that was up from a previous offer from 54 percent, the details were unclear. Some trade officials suggested the cut was only an EU recalculation of its previous offer, while others suspected some creative mathematics. Marianne Fischer Boel, the EU farm commissioner, and Michel Barnier, her French counterpart, denied that the EU had given ground.