[threadbear]

It's an increasingly chaotic world, where truth is hidden by competing and conflicting agendas. The rich lord it over the poor and the strong inflict pain on the weak, but we're not giving up. You can beat us, insult us humiliate us, but we're not giving up.

"Die off" is a loaded term and defeatist. It helps nobody, but the oil companies, as it implies that it is hopeless to invest time or money into alternatives.

This is a core issue on this site, but people kind of dance around it. I'd like to see it addressed.

[UncoveringTruths]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')WO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '"')Die off" is a loaded term and defeatist.

[threadbear]

Thank you for helping me make my point, Jack. Just out of curiosity, let's break down the numbers here.

You, no doubt are invested in oil. Seeing as it's somewhat compatible with your philosophy, I can't call you a hypocrite, or even a defeatist, just a misanthropist.

In your estimate, what percentage of environmentalists on this forum, who also like people,(generally speaking), are invested in oil companies? Do you have a take on that, or do you prefer not to comment?

[gnm]

Jack's position is easy to understand as he is a soulless sociopath... (no offense intended of course).

I would propose to coin a term for those who tout themselves as environmentalists which see the only solution as "die off" which I agree is rather defeatist...

Instead of environmentalist the term would be envrionihilist.

-G

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'J')ack's position is easy to understand as he is a soulless sociopath... (no offense intended of course).

I would propose to coin a term for those who tout themselves as environmentalists which see the only solution as "die off" which I agree is rather defeatist...

Instead of environmentalist the term would be envrionihilist.

-G

[RonMN]

I think the title hits the nail on the head! "We'll go down fighting".

A conflict over limited resources is assured...it will happen because it has always happened. Whether the resource was food, water, energy, land, etc., it didn't matter...it has always resulted in starvation or conflict or both.

So either I survive, and like Jack says...the world will be a more plesant place to live.

Or I go down fighting, and atleast I go down knowing i did all i could (and i'll find comfort in that).

For me, the worst would be to give up without a struggle!!!

[dinopello]

Die-off is loaded, I agree. It sounds like extinction to most people I think. "That species died-off many centuries ago".

What's the opposite of die-off? Die-on? Live-off ?

How about Die-back ? How about simply reduction in population? People die, and new people are born. What the rates are relative to one another is the issue. Any rational person would admit that you can't keep increasing the population forever. Dynamical systems with controls undergoing input always overshoot. Either pure steady-state equilibrium is reached eventually (really never in real systems) or you repeatively over and undershoot.

I'll go down living, until the end that is.

[threadbear]

Rnmn? What are you invested in?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'D')ie-off is loaded, I agree. It sounds like extinction to most people I think. "That species died-off many centuries ago".

What's the opposite of die-off? Die-on? Live-off ?

How about Die-back ? How about simply reduction in population? People die, and new people are born. What the rates are relative to one another is the issue. Any rational person would admit that you can't keep increasing the population forever. Dynamical systems with controls undergoing input always overshoot. Either pure steady-state equilibrium is reached eventually (really never in real systems) or you repeatively over and undershoot.

I'll go down living, until the end that is.

[Ferretlover]

Die off....
IMHO, barring nuclear war or multiple pandemics, I think that the die-off will proceed at different speeds.
It will probably be quicker in the larger cities due to lack of food, illness/starvation, and crime, and, slower in littler towns and agricultural areas.

Some of those that survive the initial first year after oil depletion, will probably have figured out how to survive with the basics, but, will then be susceptible to illnesses: brought on by a more frugal lifestyle and medical shortages; brought into the community by those who are homeless/fleeing the cities; and, by insects (mosquitoes, ticks, etc ), and rodents.

I am not sure when, but at some point, the MSM will stop reporting anything about the body counts.

[RonMN]

I'm well diversified. Gold/silver, dollars, survival / gardening / camping tools & equipment, books, canned & dry food, ammo, knowledge, tent, gardening & saving heirloom seed, no CC debt (but house not paid off yet)...still looking for farm land with some woods. Still learning how to keep a PMA after all becomes worthless.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')hank you for helping me make my point, Jack.

[burtonridr]

Yea unfortunately ever person here has helped feed the monster by investing in the oil companies indirectly..... Buying food helps feed the oil company down the line...

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'W')hy should I want to keep large numbers of poor, often below median IQ, frequently odoriferous, generally noisy, and constantly dripping people alive?

[Nano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')ie back? Perhaps. Few would disagree with the gist of your post. "Powerdown" seems an inclusive term that should include powerdown of population, slowly, humanely.

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')You can beat us, insult us humiliate us, but we're not giving up.

"Die off" is a loaded term and defeatist.

This is a core issue on this site, but people kind of dance around it. I'd like to see it addressed.

[threadbear]

We live in a laissez faire capitalist system which compares social and individual struggles to the struggles that take place in the natural world. Social Darwinism, where the strong are said to outcompete the weak, has become a crutch for parasites.

It's a weak analogy at best. Right now, for example, as a result of a misrepresentation and over use of this idea, we are seeing something that never plays out in nature, an economic derivatives meltdown. Quite serendipitously, this meltdown is going to take out the weak and many of the "strong" in equal numbers.

The idea that we are a victims of history, and bound to repeat it is defeatest. The idea running in tandem, that as a species we are at the mercy of Darwinian forces, both individually, collectively, and now with Mother Nature playing Darwin's heavy, is overstated.

I'll go down fighting against generalizations that polarize, natural "law" that paralyzes rational and compassionate thought and I know others on this forum are with me.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')t's an increasingly chaotic world, where truth is hidden by competing and conflicting agendas. The rich lord it over the poor and the strong inflict pain on the weak, but we're not giving up. You can beat us, insult us humiliate us, but we're not giving up.

"Die off" is a loaded term and defeatist. It helps nobody, but the oil companies, as it implies that it is hopeless to invest time or money into alternatives.

This is a core issue on this site, but people kind of dance around it. I'd like to see it addressed.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')ie back? Perhaps. Few would disagree with the gist of your post. "Powerdown" seems an inclusive term that should include powerdown of population, slowly, humanely.