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How would you build the perfect society?

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How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Emma » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 09:08:35

Imagine we are all sent back to the stone age, you have been selected as the leader of a 1000 survivors. What would be your plan?

Here is mine:
First I would split the group into 10 groups of a 100. A recent study revealed that a 100 strong community is the perfect recipe for harmony, as people all know each other and there are enough people to contribute for a working society.
So after each group has gone their ways to build their community, I would gather my group and plan . First would be to figure out how many of each trade is needed to support the community (farmers, builders, doctors, teachers..), and make sure there are enough people to fill these roles without having too many of each.
I would get rid of currency. As the community is small, everybody will have to contribute one form or another. Those who can't for one reason or another will be supported.
Everything will be free, there will be a communal stash and market giving away food, supplies. Again the small size of the community will prevent people from abusing it, if someone is being too greedy it will show up very quickly.
Of course families will look after themselves first. Builders will have better houses, farmers more food...The more hardworking the family is, the wealthier it will be but to be part of the community, each adult will have to contribute one form or another.
There will be contacts and trades with other communities of course, exchanging our surplus for theirs.
Efforts would be made to keep the population low, not by preventing people from having children but by setting new communities when the population has doubled.
This way the continent may fill up with many small cities, all in touch with each other. Science and technology will happen on a wider scale, not limited to each community. And of course every improvements in our civilization will have to be carefully thought through so it doesn't break the harmony of man and nature.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 10:14:58

Perfect society is an oxymoron.

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 13:01:59

A primitive, non-technological society where women die in childbirth, and lives are unneccesarily cut short by infections, measles, polio, influenza and other easily cured and preventable diseases is far from perfect. 8)
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby dbruning » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 13:45:34

Noble idea, but I'm not sure it's possible to attain. Humans are flawed in so many ways, I'm fairly certain any attempt at perfection will be unachieveable.

From what I've seen in history, even if harmony and fairness reigned in your community, outsiders would surely invade, burn everything, and kill most people - perhaps enslaving the survivors. The only way I see a perfect society is....we remove the humans. Perhaps a different, kinder species would find their way to perfection. Humans haven't.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Grifter » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 17:38:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A') primitive, non-technological society where women die in childbirth, and lives are unneccesarily cut short by infections, measles, polio, influenza and other easily cured and preventable diseases is far from perfect.

I'm not so sure, sounds horrible put that way, but it might be perfect. We'd have to mate like rabbits for a start.
If we went back in time and started the whole project again, we would end up in the same place, as long as we had the resources to do it. Oh wait.. :wink:
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Narz » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 21:10:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Emma', 'A') recent study revealed that a 100 strong community is the perfect recipe for harmony

Which study? I'd be curious to read the article about it you did.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby jboogy » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 23:39:00

probably either copy the amish without the sexual repression and pagan idolatry, or something like caligula's time with me being the emporer or at least the guy that has to "look after" the concubines."AM I NOT MERCIFUL"?----Commodus....."My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius"-----Russell Crowe
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 00:28:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'N')oble idea, but I'm not sure it's possible to attain. Humans are flawed in so many ways, I'm fairly certain any attempt at perfection will be unachievable.
From what I've seen in history, even if harmony and fairness reigned in your community, outsiders would surely invade, burn everything, and kill most people - perhaps enslaving the survivors.The only way I see a perfect society is we remove the humans. Perhaps a different, kinder species would find their way to perfection. Humans haven't.

This is a common trait among doomers on this website. The world is perfect. Humans are an evil infection. Kill the humans, save the planet.

I prefer to imagine a world in which humanity takes better care of the planet, not a world without humans entirely.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Geko45 » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 00:56:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'T')his is a common trait among doomers on this website. The world is perfect. Humans are an evil infection. Kill the humans, save the planet.

I must be the contrarian doomer then cuz I don't think the planet is in any sort of jeopardy at all (never has been). We, however, are totally screwed. I do understand your point though. To many people on here seem to relish the idea of a die-off. While I, on the other hand, find the thought truly terrifying.

As for the perfect society, first, I'd issue every member of society a rifle as an armed society is a polite society (Heinlein). Next, I'd identify each person’s area of strength and issue them the resources to take advantage of those strengths. I'd give them full ownership of those resources and the freedom to barter and trade as they saw fit. Then I would introduce a document to serve as the basis of all law that guarantees individual liberty above all us. It would be like the Bill of Rights but with some important revisions (hindsight being 20/20). Last, I would let the free market reign supreme. No nanny state, everyone has the responsibility to care for themselves and the ability to do so. No one would be required to look after anyone else. Although I would expect that they would do so voluntarily when they realize they are stronger as a group.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby frankthetank » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 01:26:06

Macchu Pichu...?

Humans are a menace. We have to big of brains or something. If we could lead a simple existence (caves/wild berries/rainwater), i think the planet would be ok. Right now the planet is doomed.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby paimei01 » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 09:13:03

Perfect society needs perfect people, impossible. My goal now is to live in the present moment ,for the time I succeed doing that I can say everything is perfect the way it is.
I suggest everybody to try it, it's not as easy as it seems, to not have a head full of random thoughts and worries about future and past :) link
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 10:14:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'M')acchu Pichu...? Humans are a menace. We have to big of brains or something. If we could lead a simple existence (caves/wild berries/rainwater), i think the planet would be ok. Right now the planet is doomed.

Another clear example of what I mentioned earlier. I wonder how large the "Save The Earth, Kill The Humans" constituency is on this forum. My guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of 25%.

I also wonder how many people in that 25% group have children. My guess is relatively few. Note: I don't have children and I don't plan on having children any time soon. I'm merely pointing out how being childless effects an individual's perception about Peak Oil and the related consequences.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby jboogy » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 10:16:54

Amen Paimei, Ferrel , has something devistating happened to you recently?I've noticed you've been super-gloomy lately.Yeah people suck but you gotta shrug it off and make the most of the good shit in your life.You remind me of a manic-depressive , bi-polar fortune teller . Don't skip days on your meds!
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 14:05:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') wonder how large the "Save The Earth, Kill The Humans" constituency is on this forum.

My guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of 25%.


Time for a poll.

100 people? Perfection? You could geld the males, long as we're talking about ant farms.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'H')umans aren't fundamentally flawed, we fit right in (and in fact were an important positive contributor) until about 10,000 years ago. Our current takeover/drawdown based culture is the problem.


"Positive" for who? Humans went to town on various other species long before we began working bronze. Read about what happened when we arrived in Australia 50,000 years ago. Or are you talking about positive contribution of another sort?
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 15:52:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') wonder how large the "Save The Earth, Kill The Humans" constituency is on this forum. My guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of 25%.

Time for a poll. 100 people? Perfection? You could geld the males, long as we're talking about ant farms.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'H')umans aren't fundamentally flawed, we fit right in (and in fact were an important positive contributor) until about 10,000 years ago. Our current takeover/drawdown based culture is the problem.

"Positive" for who? Humans went to town on various other species long before we began working bronze. Read about what happened when we arrived in Australia 50,000 years ago. Or are you talking about positive contribution of another sort?

And people think my 25% estimate is too high? The more posts that I read on this forum, the more I am convinced that the "Kill the humans, save the planet" crowd is slowly becoming the majority opinion.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby Emma » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 16:53:40

Actually I heard it in a programme on the BBC, after the shooting in that Amish community, they reported on their community. Someone on that show said that they calculated the perfect number for humans living in a society is 110 or so (can't remember the exact number) they said something about the number of people the brain can accurately remember among other stuff and came out with this number.
I don't think it really matter if it's 100 or 500, as long as there are enough people to get the jobs done and it being small enough so the people all know each other. You care more about people you know and when a crime is commited it is fairly easy to find the culprit. A smaller community solves a lot of problems.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby bodigami » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 17:17:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Emma', 'A')ctually I heard it in a programme on the BBC, after the shooting in that Amish community, they reported on their community. Someone on that show said that they calculated the perfect number for humans living in a society is 110 or so (can't remember the exact number) they said something about the number of people the brain can accurately remember among other stuff and came out with this number.

It's 150. It seems we're biologically hardwired for social interactions with up to 150 individuals.
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Re: How would you build the perfect society?

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 18:42:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'T')he more posts that I read on this forum, the more I am convinced that the "Kill the humans, save the planet" crowd is slowly becoming the majority opinion.

I'm not in favor of that option. Intelligence is what I wish to see preserved foremost, nothing on the planet except humanity has the aesthetic wherewithal to appreciate beauty in the first place. I was simply pointing out what bastards (with bastard filling) we are as well, even without the trappings of civilization. We are incapable of destroying all life on the planet, though. It would be impossible to nuke the extremophiles, and even if we could totally scrub the planet clean there's plenty of other simple life in the universe.

I'd like to see humanity develop a sustainable society, which by definition would appreciate other species and the ecosystems that sustain us all. It's just that I have my doubts about it happening. It's that bastard filling, dag nab it!
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