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Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 16:37:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '.')..I have no idea why the entire world is scared nearly shitless of "Islamists"...

Well, we could start here:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he crowd, divided into sections for women and men...
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 17:20:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Well, we could start here:

Quote:
The crowd, divided into sections for women and men...


That's seriously the problem? Because of segregation? What's so wrong about men being in groups with other men and women with other women? There's a far higher chance of rape and molestation when groups of strangers of the opposite sex mix than when they are segregated. And what does the mixing do that is beneficial at this meeting? Will it increase morale? With it accomplish the goal further? The answer is that it does absolutely nothing beneficial for the group and can only be detrimental.

In addition, I'll ask again, how does their segregation that they choose for themselves affect you? Why are you opposed to them choosing their own destiny?

----
Maybe another reason that America and Britain try to defame HT.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t is the duty of the Khilafah State to make its currency in gold and silver


It would also abolish interest and government overspending, thus inflation. Oh, what crimes they commit! How dare they not allow themselves to be stolen from by the bankers and government.

But of course, we can't exactly allow the 'barbarians' to have more sound economic policies than ours.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah I'm going to move to Indonesia so I can find some peace.


Yeah, believe headlines and not statistics. That's a great way to make a decision. Disregard that your wife and daughters have an 80 times better chance of being raped in the US than Indonesia. Or that your family has about a six times better chance of being murdered in the US.

Hell, there's as good a chance that you'll be killed just by an illegal in the US as you have of being killed by anybody in Indonesia. But yes, go off of the headlines. BTW, how many would have died in those bombings that were prevented? A few hundred? Maybe a thousand on the very high end (.001% probability)? So then the US is still 9,000 more murders ahead of Indonesia.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 18:33:37

My guess is we have lately elected to execute in un-winnable, politically motivated, proxy wars?

Just a guess.

Another guess is not many reading this can imagine what may be around the corner...

since we are guessing.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 19:58:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '
')I don't really think George Bush shares your attitude. . .
I think he is mixed up, and he's totally been led, like some kind of sheep
Interesting tidbit: Cheney's office completely controls the flow of information into Bush's office, but Bush's office does not control the flow of info into Cheney's office. Cheney is the first Vice-President to wield such control and power. I gather that Cheney respects Bush's political savvy, but it doesn't go much further than that. Cheney is the bureaucratic mastermind behind all of this. I've read of such things in history. Cheney is like Cardinal Richelieu to King Louis XIII.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 20:06:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'Y')eah, believe headlines and not statistics.

Statistics show you are more likely to be killed by terrorists in Indonesia than you are in the United States. Especially if you're non-Muslim.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ell, there's as good a chance that you'll be killed just by an illegal in the US as you have of being killed by anybody in Indonesia.

I agree with that. Still doesn't justify Islamic terrorism.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')TW, how many would have died in those bombings that were prevented? A few hundred? Maybe a thousand on the very high end (.001% probability)?

Oh ok I guess that makes it ok then. A million deaths is just a statistic.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 20:21:29

At the time of the civil war, the Democratic Party was aligned with the South and Slavery. The Republican Party was aligned with Lincoln and the abolitionists. That is why the Democratic Party dominated the south for 100 years after the war.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 20:25:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tatistics show you are more likely to be killed by terrorists in Indonesia than you are in the United States. Especially if you're non-Muslim.


Yes, but that's because terrorism is hardly a contributor of violence outside of Iraq. Even in 2001, terrorism only accounted for 20% of murders in the US. In 2002, terrorism accounted for only 10% of murders in Indonesia. Those numbers are down to far below 1% for both of those nations now.

We're not talking about just terrorism, but all violence. You still have the assumption that the only contributor to violence is terrorism, which is flat wrong, just like your assumption of 300,000 AQ in Iraq which controlled the nation during Saddam's years. Again, it simply makes you a laughingstock on this forum.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree with that. Still doesn't justify Islamic terrorism.


When did I ever try to justify terrorism or murder of any kind?
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 20:39:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tatistics show you are more likely to be killed by terrorists in Indonesia than you are in the United States. Especially if you're non-Muslim.


Yes, but that's because terrorism is hardly a contributor of violence outside of Iraq. Even in 2001, terrorism only accounted for 20% of murders in the US. In 2002, terrorism accounted for only 10% of murders in Indonesia. Those numbers are down to far below 1% for both of those nations now.

We're not talking about just terrorism, but all violence. You still have the assumption that the only contributor to violence is terrorism, which is flat wrong, just like your assumption of 300,000 AQ in Iraq which controlled the nation during Saddam's years. Again, it simply makes you a laughingstock on this forum.

Show me where I have assumed terrorism is the only form of violence?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree with that. Still doesn't justify Islamic terrorism.


When did I ever try to justify terrorism or murder of any kind?

I don't really see what your point is other than trying to justify terrorism.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 22:21:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't really see what your point is other than trying to justify terrorism.


You've said that Indonesia is violent, more violent than the US. I've shown several statistics which are generally construed as violent crimes and in each one of those (murders, rapes and armed robberies) the US had several times as many per capita than Indonesia.

I was simply showing that Indonesia, a Muslim nation, is much less violent in its nature than the US is. I never tried to justify any kind of violence or terrorism in particular.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')how me where I have assumed terrorism is the only form of violence?


In response to my post about the statistics of violence in the US and Indonesia, you respond with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Statistics show you are more likely to be killed by terrorists in Indonesia than you are in the United States. Especially if you're non-Muslim.


So when I'm talking about violence, you turn the conversation to just terrorism, which isn't what the conversation is about. So it gives the impression that either you're a worm trying to wiggle out of a debate that you can't win or that you believe that terrorism is the only form of violence.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 22:40:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't really see what your point is other than trying to justify terrorism.


You've said that Indonesia is violent

That's because it is. See the links posted above.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'm')ore violent than the US.

Where did I say that?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'ve shown several statistics which are generally construed as violent crimes and in each one of those (murders, rapes and armed robberies) the US had several times as many per capita than Indonesia.

So?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') was simply showing that Indonesia, a Muslim nation, is much less violent in its nature than the US is.
I already said I agree with you that illegal aliens murder and rape more than terrorists.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')how me where I have assumed terrorism is the only form of violence?

In response to my post about the statistics of violence in the US and Indonesia, you respond with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Statistics show you are more likely to be killed by terrorists in Indonesia than you are in the United States. Especially if you're non-Muslim.

So when I'm talking about violence, you turn the conversation to just terrorism, which isn't what the conversation is about. So it gives the impression that either you're a worm trying to wiggle out of a debate that you can't win or that you believe that terrorism is the only form of violence.
I'm talking about terrorism. Indonesia has more terrorism than the United States.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 23:06:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m talking about terrorism. Indonesia has more terrorism than the United States.


Ok. So you're just a worm that runs away from debates he can't win. It's nice of you to admit it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's because it is. See the links posted above.


A few incidents hardly make it a violent nation. It is continually on the bottom of the list of per capita crimes in the entire world. How exactly does that make it a violent nation?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here did I say that?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah I'm going to move to Indonesia so I can find some peace.


You currently live in the US. Since you think that you won't be able to find peace in Indonesia, it implies that you think that it is more violent than your current nation, the US.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 23:25:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'H')ell you would not have won the Civil War if it had been up to the Democrats.


Indeed.

The democrats were the slave-owning party of the south who seceeded from the Union
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 23:39:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'A') few incidents hardly make it a violent nation. It is continually on the bottom of the list of per capita crimes in the entire world. How exactly does that make it a violent nation?

Just because it isn't violent relative to other places doesn't mean it isn't violent. If you can't recognize terrorism as violence that's your problem.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here did I say that?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah I'm going to move to Indonesia so I can find some peace.


You currently live in the US. Since you think that you won't be able to find peace in Indonesia, it implies that you think that it is more violent than your current nation, the US.

As I said above and you already conceded, Indonesia has more terrorism than the United States.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:09:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s I said above and you already conceded, Indonesia has more terrorism than the United States.


And as I've said, terrorism accounts for less than 1% of all murders in either nation in the past 5 years. So to base your view of a nation's suitability in the realm of violence off of terrorism is absolutely childish and based solely off of headlines. The 12,000+ murders (minus 9/11) in the US didn't get a whole lot of attention in 2001, but those 3,000 on 9/11 sure did. Same thing with Bali and Indonesia.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:12:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s I said above and you already conceded, Indonesia has more terrorism than the United States.


And as I've said, terrorism accounts for less than 1% of all murders in either nation in the past 5 years. So to base your view of a nation's suitability in the realm of violence off of terrorism is absolutely childish and based solely off of headlines. The 12,000+ murders (minus 9/11) in the US didn't get a whole lot of attention in 2001, but those 3,000 on 9/11 sure did. Same thing with Bali and Indonesia.

Tell that to the victims.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ell that to the victims.


You mean the victims of murders not related to terrorism which is far higher than those related to terrorism? The issue at hand is not emotionalism, but practicality. There is absolutely no reason to choose the US over Indonesia in terms of safety.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:33:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ell that to the victims.


You mean the victims of murders not related to terrorism which is far higher than those related to terrorism?

No. I mean the decapitation and bombing victims of the innocent terrorists.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is absolutely no reason to choose the US over Indonesia in terms of safety.

I beg to differ.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:36:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') beg to differ.


Yeah, but that's because your parents fucked inside a nuclear facility on the night of your conception.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:38:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') beg to differ.


Yeah, but that's because your parents fucked inside a nuclear facility on the night of your conception.

I take your ad hominem attack as admission you've lost the debate.
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Re: Are we in the west unable now to wage a war to win?

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 00:41:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') beg to differ.


Yeah, but that's because your parents fucked inside a nuclear facility on the night of your conception.

I take your ad hominem attack as admission you've lost the debate.


No, it's an admission that I have better things to do than debate with someone who fails to debate with logic and reasoning and instead using emotionalism and is an ideologue.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q')uote:
There is absolutely no reason to choose the US over Indonesia in terms of safety.

I beg to differ.


For example: Why should there be any differing? Terrorism plays almost no part in the threats on your life in either nation. So why would you concern yourself with it in making a choice between the two nations?

But instead, you let stupidity play into your decision. You think something that contributes less than 1% to your safety should be used in your decision about your safety. You don't see it as a factual issue, just an emotional one because you've been told over and over again by the media about how bad terrorism is, when in fact terrorism is just another tiny issue to me and you and our safety. It's right there beside tripping on a banana. But again, you let emotions get the best of you.

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