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Life and Death

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

If you were in a lifeboat rated for 8 people with 24 on board, and more tried to board, would you:

Poll ended at Sat 08 Sep 2007, 19:28:39

Let them on board.
9
No votes
Fend them off.
28
No votes
Other (must be explained)
8
No votes
 
Total votes : 45

Re: Life and Death

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 23:57:13

Monte, do you have a wife and children?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 00:17:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')onte, do you have a wife and children?


I know the followup to this.

No. But I wouldn't add to the overloaded boat. I would have to make some "other" choice.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 00:23:50

Knowing about life and death rescue situations and survival makes it easier to overcome human emotional thinking that makes things worse.

For example:

In a boat at sea with people dehyrdated, how would you allocate limited water, say only a gallon amongst 4 people?

How would you dole it out?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 01:01:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')onte, do you have a wife and children?

I know the followup to this.
I think I know what you think of me and you are probably right. But no kids, no wife, I get the picture. I'm not sure that it matters. What good is love if we are going down? Is this the follow up you were expecting?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 01:04:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')onte, do you have a wife and children?

I know the followup to this.
I think I know what you think of me and you are probably right. But no kids, no wife, I get the picture. I'm not sure that it matters. What good is love if we are going down? Is this the follow up you were expecting?


What are you driving at?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 01:22:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')What are you driving at?
wouldn't you like to know. I'll leave it to the spectators.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby Jack » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 05:55:28

Other.

Collaborate with an "Inner Circle" of 7 other people, then expand to an "Outer Circle" of 8 additional people - 16 total.

The 16 terminate the excess 8. Anyone attempting to get on is terminated.

The "Inner Circle" now terminates the "Outer Circle".

We now have capacity of 8, and precisely 8 filling that capacity. United in our exercise of will, we continue to delete anyone that comes within range.

8)
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby WildRose » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 05:59:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
In a boat at sea with people dehyrdated, how would you allocate limited water, say only a gallon amongst 4 people?


Well, you'd have to assess the needs of the individuals on the boat. Some people are more susceptible or will succumb more quickly to dehydration and heat stroke than others, for example, children and the elderly. If all things were equal, such as age, overall health and gender (females generally dehydrate faster than males), then you could allocate the water equally. However, if you were depending on one or two people who had the best chance of getting you to safety (because of their fitness level and skill, for example), and these people were, say, working hard in the hot sun, then it would be crucial that they did not become fatigued or disoriented from dehydration.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 08:25:41

I get your point, Monte, but I choose other. I would rotate people in the water. If people have to sink because there are too many so be it, but not too soon.

If anybody had to die it might be anybody that absolutely had to kill others without it being the decision of all onboard.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby Twilight » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 10:23:22

Thinking about it some more, I don't think anyone would have to make a conscious decision. I think something would happen, and if you survived you would spend the rest of your life trying to work it out.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:10:49

All would eventually leave the boat through a natural process which occurs without any effort on anyone's part.


This process is known as "death."
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:37:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
In a boat at sea with people dehyrdated, how would you allocate limited water, say only a gallon amongst 4 people?


Well, you'd have to assess the needs of the individuals on the boat. Some people are more susceptible or will succumb more quickly to dehydration and heat stroke than others, for example, children and the elderly. If all things were equal, such as age, overall health and gender (females generally dehydrate faster than males), then you could allocate the water equally. However, if you were depending on one or two people who had the best chance of getting you to safety (because of their fitness level and skill, for example), and these people were, say, working hard in the hot sun, then it would be crucial that they did not become fatigued or disoriented from dehydration.


Let me make it simple. There are only four people, all equal in needs.

How would you dole out the water? How much, how fast?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:42:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I') get your point, Monte, but I choose other. I would rotate people in the water.


You are dodging the question by creating options out. That is not the point of the poll.

You have three ultimate choices here:

Fend off or let aboard.

Or give up your spot.

Given the three, what would you do?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:44:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'T')hinking about it some more, I don't think anyone would have to make a conscious decision.


That isn't the point of the poll.

What would you do if you had to make such a decision?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 12:48:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')ll would eventually leave the boat through a natural process which occurs without any effort on anyone's part.


This process is known as "death."


The boat isn't called a "lifeboat" for nothing.

It is designed to support a certain number of lives.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 13:00:05

Awful lot of waffling on a simple question about life and death.

So far, 58% would make the choice that would increase the chances of saving the most.

22% would make the choice that would further reduce the chances of those already in danger, and most likely cause all to perish.

And 19% would avoid making the choice.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby dinopello » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 14:50:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')b]most likely cause all to perish.


This is the key part of this whole scenario - most likely. First, that is your judgement and it may be correct, but even you say "most likely", inferring that there is a chance. Given a chance at saving more lives, some people will. Increases risk, and reward (especially if the people you are saving are dear to you).

Another poll could be for those that would execute the people in the water (friends and relative of those on the boat lets say) and then 5 minutes later a coast guard helicopter comes over the horizon. How would you feel? Would you calmly tell the mothers and fathers of the children you clobbered on the head with the oar that at the time it was the 'right' decision ? Would they buy that ?
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 15:39:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')b]most likely cause all to perish.


This is the key part of this whole scenario - most likely. First, that is your judgement and it may be correct, but even you say "most likely", inferring that there is a chance.


No, inferring that some may survive the inevitabkle sinking of the boat, not that there is a chance to further overload the boat and save more.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 15:43:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', ' ')Another poll could be for those that would execute the people in the water (friends and relative of those on the boat lets say) and then 5 minutes later a coast guard helicopter comes over the horizon. How would you feel? Would you calmly tell the mothers and fathers of the children you clobbered on the head with the oar that at the time it was the 'right' decision ? Would they buy that ?


Why is it that so many miss the point of this poll?

It's, what would you do given the choices?

You are miles from land as I said. No helicopter or rescue is coming for hours.
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Re: Life and Death

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 16:02:28

I don't see anyone answering my water question.

Here's a hint:

What is the purpose of a water container or canteen?
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