What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
by Emma » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 15:20:21
And here I was thinking that everybody on PO.com looked beyond racial and cultural differences.
People in poorer countries can be "forgiven" for making more children.
A family of 20 in Africa consumes less energy than a family of 3 in the West.
They need the manpower to provide for the family, grow crops or herd the cattle.
Many many children don't live past the age of 5. They die prematurely of disease and malnutrition and wars.
We, in the west have the wealth and education, why don't we act responsibly? Overpopulation, pollution and energy problems are more important than getting in the world records book. What's worse is saying that because they do it, why can't we do the same?
We live in a hopeless world
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by Ayame » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 15:35:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'S')he doesn't really have a choice.
Yeah, sucks don't it? Won't stop me complaining though. I often feel like everything is one big set up courtesy of mother nature. Everywhere is competition and overpopulation turning the bloody wheels of evolution, in every species. Other women get beaten by their husbands if they don't get jiggy. Now where's my shot of vodka? ... helps me to forget and calm down. What a world. But these rapes etc. don't come close to the number not using contraception because it's against their religion etc. Maybe one day they will wake up, I recently read somewhere that condom sales in Iran were up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Emma', 'P')eople in poorer countries can be "forgiven" for making more children.
By whom? I'm not going to forgive them. They keep popping them out even when the existing ones are starving. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the next ones will starve too. I'm not to going to forgive someone who knowingly brings another human being into this world just to starve.
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by EnergyUnlimited » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 16:16:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayame', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'S')he doesn't really have a choice.
Yeah, sucks don't it? Won't stop me complaining though. I often feel like everything is one big set up courtesy of mother nature.
Yes, that is why I am so pessimistic in respect of man made population control/reduction.
It would either be a corrupt oppressive system with equals (1 child allowed, general population) and more equals (elites and those "rich enough" who would beat the system - look on China for example)
or the system would fail defeated by dissent/rebelion or Nature (genes of those who control breeding go extinct).
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')verywhere is competition and overpopulation turning the bloody wheels of evolution, in every species.
My "nihilistic" view is that the only justification of life is to increase entropy faster than it would be possible otherwise (if life don't exist).
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ther women get beaten by their husbands if they don't get jiggy. Now where's my shot of vodka? ... helps me to forget and calm down. What a world.
This at least can change.
Some tribes are still living in matriarchat, therefore there is sound precedence.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut these rapes etc. don't come close to the number not using contraception because it's against their religion etc.
Correct. That is one of major problems of humanity, far worst than rapes.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')aybe one day they will wake up, I recently read somewhere that condom sales in Iran were up.
by TheTurtle » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 16:36:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')The world consumes more oil than America.
The US is less than 5% of world population. You would expect the world to consume more than America
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')China has the largest population in the world.
Yet uses less than a third of the oil that the US uses.
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
by EnergyUnlimited » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 17:25:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')The world consumes more oil than America.
The US is less than 5% of world population. You would expect the world to consume more than America
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')China has the largest population in the world.
Yet uses less than a third of the oil that the US uses.
I decided not to feed this particular troll...
Yet I am aware that often I am "troll feeder" myself.
As you may realise I am often defeatist, guy who complains that nothing meaningful can be done to address particular problem, or that medicine would be worst than disease.
So now I suggest following:
It is impossible for large internet community
not to feed a troll.
Regardless of all efforts of admins, mods and common members trolls will always be fed.
Internet communities are defenceless against trolls, unless they embrace authoritarian control principle.
That would kill spirit of free information exchange and defeat objection of such communities.
So trolls are here to stay. Nothing can be done to change it.
Ignore is futile. If one member will ignore troll, other will
quote him/her and troll dispute will still go on.
Ban is futile as well. For every banned troll two other new trolls will come.
Trolls are securing adequate entopy growth in Internet media.
They are agents of thermodynamics.
Responses to trolls are increasing entropy further (and long conversation with them is even more efficient) and original message is often blurred in that process.
Mother Nature at work.
Entropy grows, trolls win.
by wisconsin_cur » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 17:33:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Emma', 'A')nd here I was thinking that everybody on PO.com looked beyond racial and cultural differences.
People in poorer countries can be "forgiven" for making more children.
A family of 20 in Africa consumes less energy than a family of 3 in the West.
They need the manpower to provide for the family, grow crops or herd the cattle.
Many many children don't live past the age of 5. They die prematurely of disease and malnutrition and wars.We, in the west have the wealth and education, why don't we act responsibly? Overpopulation, pollution and energy problems are more important than getting in the world records book. What's worse is saying that because they do it, why can't we do the same?
We live in a hopeless world
Of course a valid question would be who is the racist? Is it the person with "White Man's Burden" who says "they can be forgiven" why? because they are unable to comprehend overshoot? because they live so poorly anyway that it doesn't matter? Of course where are many of those low energy users going? What type of lifestyle do they seek if they stay in their home regions? They aspire to live just like us. They
should understand overshoot more clearly because they live it everyday of the week.
Anytime you "forgive" people for living destructively than you talk down to them. The true egalitarian should be able to acknowldege that the population growth in the western world comes from immigration and then seek to curb that growth (by whatever good and humane and appropriate methods you like) in those places.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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by OilIsMastery » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:22:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')The world consumes more oil than America.
The US is less than 5% of world population. You would expect the world to consume more than America
Nevertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the rest of the world is even more evil.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')China has the largest population in the world.
Yet uses less than a third of the oil that the US uses.
by TheTurtle » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:26:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'N')evertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the world itself is even more evil ... The United States consumes 20 million barrels per day and China consumes 7 million barrels per day. This is because most Chinese have never flown on an airplane before.
That really makes no sense.
Now I'm beginning to think that jboogy and EnergyUnlimited are right and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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by OilIsMastery » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:28:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'N')evertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the world itself is even more evil ... The United States consumes 20 million barrels per day and China consumes 7 million barrels per day. This is because most Chinese have never flown on an airplane before.
That really makes no sense.
Now I'm beginning to think that jboogy and EnergyUnlimited are right and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
The rest of the world (the sum of the other countries in the world) consumes more oil than 20 million barrels per day. Why doesn't that make sense?
by Roccland » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:36:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'N')evertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the world itself is even more evil ... The United States consumes 20 million barrels per day and China consumes 7 million barrels per day. This is because most Chinese have never flown on an airplane before.
That really makes no sense.
Now I'm beginning to think that jboogy and EnergyUnlimited are right and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
The rest of the world consumes more oil than 20 million barrels per day. Why doesn't that make sense?
Dude, "the rest of the world" represents 94% of the global population using 63 million b/d as compared to 6% using 22 million b/d.
Americans use much more oil proportionately than the rest of the world.
by TheTurtle » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:36:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '
')The rest of the world (the sum of the other countries in the world) consumes more oil than 20 million barrels per day. Why doesn't that make sense?
Because the fact that 5% of the population consumes over 25% of the oil clearly indicates that those 5% are far more consumptive per capita than the other 95%. Why doesn't THAT make sense?
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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by OilIsMastery » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 19:37:20
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'N')evertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the world itself is even more evil ... The United States consumes 20 million barrels per day and China consumes 7 million barrels per day. This is because most Chinese have never flown on an airplane before.
That really makes no sense.
Now I'm beginning to think that jboogy and EnergyUnlimited are right and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
The rest of the world consumes more oil than 20 million barrels per day. Why doesn't that make sense?
Dude, "the rest of the world" represents 94% of the global population using 63 million b/d as compared to 6% using 22 million b/d.
Americans use much more oil proportionately than the rest of the world.
by Zardoz » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 20:57:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Emma', 's')orry but i had to do this.
You have nothing to be sorry about.
This guy is unbelievable...
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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by TheDude » Sat 04 Aug 2007, 23:27:51
I kinda enjoy his posts, his disconnect with reality/logic has brought me plenty of involuntary laughter.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'N')evertheless the world consumes more oil than America does. Therefore if America is evil for consuming oil the rest of the world is even more evil.
He doesn't even bring in falsified data. Couldn't win a debate with a chimp! Every post is a gem of reductio ad absurdum.
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
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