[evilgenius]

Hank Paulson is in China for a reason. I think they will sacrifice the poor in America. They are divvying up the 85 mbpd that we have peaked at amongst the still rich players. To do that America must suffer demand destruction. Really, for a time, it is a zero sum game. What America loses by going down by two or three million barrels a day they get back by ensuring cheap Chinese imports. And the Chinese get further develpment. The ultra rich are just looking to see which of the still rich nations/regions falls off first without endangering their own riches.

Any bets on which of the still rich falls first?

The answer determines, of course, whether the next world phase is war or famine.

[evilgenius]

Incidentally, I think the two most likely candidates to fall next are Eastern Europe and anywhere from Mexico southward. Since it is so cold in Eastern Europe they can probably be made to agree politically with Russia to get warm. The Americas might be able to help themselves to some degree, and there is the safety valve of the US for excess population available to Mexico and those other states close enough for it to be viable.

Sounds good for Russia to receive the political edge except then they also have to take care of the extra people. Since they are peaking or have peaked it could create a situation nobody hears about until it gets far too bad.

The Americas can take care of themselves, but they have way too many people and very many large cities. Again, it is a situation where starvation could go on across the board without the world paying much attention.

[Gigashadow]

Liquidity Crunch sounds like a very tasty candy bar.

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '[')url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article2182984.ece]Leading investment banks on both sides of the Atlantic are saddled with almost $500 billion (£246 billion) in agreed leveraged loans that they are unable to parcel out to other investors.[/url]

[Roccland]

then...

[jboogy]

Falling man has some pretty good head-bounce.

[smiley]

Ai.. talk about a sword of Damocles for the dollar.

I think lowering interest rates is not an option. That will send a clear signal that Goldilocks is not feeling too well.

Money creation is less public, especially with M3 publication out of the open. I guess that they will try to inflate their way out of it and keep public exposure to a minimum.

Might even pull it off, but it would put the dollar one step closer to the brink.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'A')i.. talk about a sword of Damocles for the dollar.

I think lowering interest rates is not an option. That will send a clear signal that Goldilocks is not feeling too well.

Money creation is less public, especially with M3 publication out of the open. I guess that they will try to inflate their way out of it and keep public exposure to a minimum.

Might even pull it off, but it would put the dollar one step closer to the brink.

[Grimnir]

Help me out here; what does it mean to "monetize" a debt? Aren't all debts in the form of money? Does it mean printing more money to inflate it away?

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')elp me out here; what does it mean to "monetize" a debt?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '
')The Americas can take care of themselves, but they have way too many people and very many large cities.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'H')elp me out here; what does it mean to "monetize" a debt? Aren't all debts in the form of money? Does it mean printing more money to inflate it away?

[evilgenius]

PMS said,

Sao Paulo comes to mind. If you count the exurbs, it's 29 million people. And btw, these buildings, they stretch out for countless miles in every direction. It's an astonishing city, but I don't think the shit storm is going to play out there too well.

Exactly, and what will they do when it all falls apart? Surely they will burn even more of the rainforest. Surely their desperation will speed up the ruination of the planet by degrees. Talk about a shit storm.

[PenultimateManStanding]

pic too large-jato The irony of that is amazing. Pic too large, city too large. 29 million people. I live in San Diego, which seems like a big town, but we have 1/20th the population of Sao Paulo.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')So the only other option for the Fed is to change the color of money and default on their debts.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '2')9 million people.

[AlCzervik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')So the only other option for the Fed is to change the color of money and default on their debts.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ll I ask is that the PO.com economic gurus tell me which way the Fed will move.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlCzervik', '
')On edit, how does old man PMS get away with hijacking serious threads by discussing hot Brazilians, Mexican work ethic, and painting? PMS, those impressionist painters weren't shit. They were all looped on absinthe. Drop some of that wormwood and you could do the same work.

[jboogy]

Even though the other forums scare me a little,I might go and see what Mr. Bill at the economics place has to say about all this.Anyone else got the balls to come with me?I'm not talking to you social butterflies that flit from one forum to the other at the drop of a hat.(you traitors know who you are)