[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

I think the term "Inside Job" takes it too far, like the 911 ones.

But provoke, allow the attack, then react. Yes, I think thats' clearly the case.

[paimei01]

Holmes here we are talking about the attack on Pearl Harbor. You have no problem that someone let it happen ?
Explain that newspaper from 30 November 1941

[Alcassin]

You can give OiM and AP facts, more facts, more data, even more data, contradictory thesis, your research and you know what happens? Nothing. Walter Lippmann said once - we don't see things and then define them we define them and then see them.

Sure, if you have contradictory data they will tell you that you are "self-proclaiming expert", well it's better to be self-proclaiming expert than a sheeple of mainstream talking heads. Because mainstream never asks questions and teaches to be satisfied by their explanation.

[AirlinePilot]

Now thats just BS, nohing but unabashed BS. You can take any event in political, military, or economic history and show easily how it was manipulated by someone after the fact. I dont even deny that this happens, you just take it much too far to be plausible and it seems that CT's have some form of prediliction for this which makes their ability to gather info from many sources suspect.

I am sure I know a good bit more than dukey or alcassin about what went down at Pearl Harbor. The internet does not make you some sort of omnipotent wizard. Just because you believe it was a "conspiracy" does not make it so. Just because you fnd someone online who asks leading questions doesnt make it true. Just because it sounds good or "fits" an argument, doesn't make it true.

The cold hard truth is you cant produce any facts past pure conjecture and faith based belief that somehow Pearl was "orchestrated". Please admit that now. If you don't you lose all credibility.

I am all about facts. Facts are important, more so than questions. Typical CT arguments are in the form of questions and not supported by evidenciiary argument. When you present facts, peer reviewed and expertly agreed upon, Il sit up and take notice.

Its funny how there seem to be a lot of folks here who trust the internet to provide them with facts. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Its great resource to be sure, but its far from being flawless.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Walter Lippmann said once - we don't see things and then define them we define them and then see them.

*points to sig*

[dukey]

yeah just because you find declassified official documents which show clearly they wanted to provoke war, doesn't make it so.

Ohh its a CONSPIRACY !!*!&!"&!"!£$%£"! TINFOIL TINFOIL

I really have to ask you. How stupid are you ? How can you just deny official government documents which show CLEARLY their intentions ? You seem more than happy to swallow any official government BS even though government has a disgusting track record when it comes to lying.

Why do you believe proven liars and ignore documented evidence which shows their crimes ?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am all about facts.

[Cloud9]

If you go back to the 1930’s, the great depression was a world wide phenomenon. One out of four Americans were out of work. Millions were living in card board boxes. Millions went to bed hungry every night. Workers left the United States to find jobs in the Soviet Union. Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had already begun their conquests as a means of ending the depression in their countries. It is quite logical that some Americans working in classified positions would come up with the same idea for the United States. That idea would make its way into a memo that would work its way up through the chain of command to high level officials in the Roosevelt administration. No doubt a number of people possibly even Roosevelt thought that war was a good idea. A single classified memo detailing a scheme to go to war is not evidence of a conspiracy. We would need to know who read it, what plans were put in place and what actions were taken before we have a conspiracy.

There is no doubt that Roosevelt wanted to stop the expansion of both the Germans and the Japanese. The arsenal for democracy speech and lend lease are but two of the many examples of anti Japanese and German policies of the time.

Suppose for a moment that Roosevelt knew exactly when and where the attack from Japan was going to take place. If he launched the fleet and sunk the Japanese navy on the high seas, the American public would go nuts. There would be endless hearings on American imperialism. Congressmen would draft letters of impeachment and the Democrats would not regain the presidency for decades. The Japanese would be alerted to the fact that we had broken their code. And, there is the distinct possibility that the Japanese would sink the American fleet and win the fight. The resolve of the American people would not be behind the president and we would be forced to surrender the Pacific to the Japanese. The Russians had already been defeated by the Japanese navy in the 19th century.

I suspect that Roosevelt knew an attack some where in the Pacific was imminent. I suspect that there were some in his administration who thought war with Japan was a good idea. I suspect that there were varied opinions on how successful the attack might be.

I do not believe that Roosevelt sacrificed Pearl Harbor to start a war with Japan. I do believe that Roosevelt was surprised along with the rest of the country as to how devastating the attack was.

[NEOPO]

Some real crap dripping from your minds there Holmes and AP yet ultimately it just proves how fair and balanced this board really is.

Glad to have some hard head's to bounce our ball off of yet ultimately I am disgusted by the display of blind faith in government and the neverending belief that everything is simply incompetence.

Must be easier to sleep in a world where anything considered even remotely nefarious is nothing but a mistake...

"you disappoint me, maybe you're better off this way"

In the hall of brilliant minds your names will not be spoken...

[Alcassin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', ' ')Its funny how there seem to be a lot of folks here who trust the internet to provide them with facts. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Its great resource to be sure, but its far from being flawless.

[holmes]

Beleive me I know governments are doing things we have not a clue about! I know! I know! But what the hell are peons like us supposed to do?
Just do not project or assume what I am about. Please! I am more disgusted by the lies and treason than most of you realize. actually I am at the end of my rope about it all. I used to work my ass off helping the environment and trying to bring a culture of environmentalism to my country.
I am now just trying to live and change and help the few of us left that do care.
I would not be surprised if the whole damn history of the world was a filthy contrived lie. That is where my head is at. But I have to look at the good things. Thankfully the japs, nazi's and russian pigs did not rule this world. Russians are brutal. Stalin was a scumbag. and I am a human. I just want people to come down off this high level on the pyrimid scheme. ponzi. It is one big ponzi. WW2 was a ponzi scheme. thats for sure. Everyone was making profits. But I think it was an effect. Not the cause. As humans we really needed to crush the axis. But yeah the paper is not lie and i know it was not this big "surprise attack" I figured that out long ago. Beleive me I know. Its a scumbag world out there. Run by scumbags. all i have to do is look around the world to see that.
But to label us as neocons and brainwashed is absurd!

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')ts a scumbag world out there. Run by scumbags.

[Chesire]

Unless they are all in suspended animation in the Nazi's base in Antartica. You know a deal that all of the elite had faked deaths and were put on ice to be "reborn" at a later date.
Or even better they are all still alive playing pinochle on tuesdays and bowling on saturdays . Kept alive by the eternal youth elixir. The one that was the result of a Euro-Russian-American-Japanese-Chinese-Illuminati-Vatican-mafia-ninja-Tibetan monks-yogi masters-chefs-whoever the fuck you want to add think tank.
In a super secret lab owned by the Rockefellers but rented by the Rothschilds who sublet it to the tri-lateral commison. Under a shell company set up in Nepal by Henry Ford , Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla who appointed Prescott Bush and Spike Jones as the president and vice president . Who all collabarated to start WW 2 and then watch the show.
No one is going to be held "accountable" no matter how big the conspiracy was or how deep it ran.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')ts a scumbag world out there. Run by scumbags.

[holmes]

Is it creepy? I am not sure what I am feeling over that mural....

[holmes]

oh and university "elites" do not fool me. They are packed with scumbags from the top down.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')s it creepy? I am not sure what I am feeling over that mural....