PeakOil is You
Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy anymore
Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by KingM » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 13:56:17
Africa is poor because it's Africa, not because it lacks natural resources. You could provide free gas/oil to every person south of the Sahara and the region would not be appreciably wealthier. PO has little to do with the corruption, tribalism, disease, etc., that afflicts the region.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by lonewolf » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 14:51:59
... all good things must come to an end
The regular (frequent) 'contributors' here may well have not noticed what has happened to this site in the past year (or more). After a bit of distance (time away), it has become glaringly obvious that this 'forum' has largely morphed (descended) into a venue dominated by 3 'things'; namely overt derision, cognitive dissonance and selfish-gratification (cyber ego maintenance). Once upon a time, actual information was exchanged and occasionally discussed with some intelligence here. Now, 'discussion' is dominantly little more than overt insult (to intelligence) and/or willful (aggressive) insult to each other as well a revulsion provoking experience for the lurkers (visitors, and would-be contributors). The 'quality' of 'argumentation' (so-called 'discussion') here is in the bushing toilet. Personally, I'd much prefer to suffer the (alleged) "trolls" than tolerate the slings and arrows dispensed 24/7 by self-anointed acolytes of both denial and of doom (both based in prejudice selection). This site has descended into a contest of wills, a battle between willfully ignorant fools and overtly flaming assholes - the later being not only in abundance, but IMO, comprise the majority (y'all sort out for yourselves which category you fit/haunt). Monte, Aaron and a few others should be wholly disgusted, if they in fact weren't long ago. What will it take to return this site to some civility, dignity, integrity, respectability, to actual (informed, sentient) debate versus continuous personal attack/insult, belittlement, prejudice reinforcement, etc.)? Is this really the best you people can do - all you have to offer the world? If so, forget about the approaching perfect shit-storm. As Madge said, "Relax, You're soaking in it". Please do not forget to wash your hands when y'all are done throwing peak-feces at each other. ("Hall of Flames" bound - again)
The regular (frequent) 'contributors' here may well have not noticed what has happened to this site in the past year (or more). After a bit of distance (time away), it has become glaringly obvious that this 'forum' has largely morphed (descended) into a venue dominated by 3 'things'; namely overt derision, cognitive dissonance and selfish-gratification (cyber ego maintenance). Once upon a time, actual information was exchanged and occasionally discussed with some intelligence here. Now, 'discussion' is dominantly little more than overt insult (to intelligence) and/or willful (aggressive) insult to each other as well a revulsion provoking experience for the lurkers (visitors, and would-be contributors). The 'quality' of 'argumentation' (so-called 'discussion') here is in the bushing toilet. Personally, I'd much prefer to suffer the (alleged) "trolls" than tolerate the slings and arrows dispensed 24/7 by self-anointed acolytes of both denial and of doom (both based in prejudice selection). This site has descended into a contest of wills, a battle between willfully ignorant fools and overtly flaming assholes - the later being not only in abundance, but IMO, comprise the majority (y'all sort out for yourselves which category you fit/haunt). Monte, Aaron and a few others should be wholly disgusted, if they in fact weren't long ago. What will it take to return this site to some civility, dignity, integrity, respectability, to actual (informed, sentient) debate versus continuous personal attack/insult, belittlement, prejudice reinforcement, etc.)? Is this really the best you people can do - all you have to offer the world? If so, forget about the approaching perfect shit-storm. As Madge said, "Relax, You're soaking in it". Please do not forget to wash your hands when y'all are done throwing peak-feces at each other. ("Hall of Flames" bound - again)
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by cube » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 14:58:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'W')ell, I know alot of american taxes go to Oil Infrastructure and maintenance and god knows what else....I dont know the exact figure or breakdown.....
WRONG
Most American taxes goes to "entitlement programs"....just like Europe. What is that? It's government benefits that people feel "entitled to". It's the stuff that governments give to their citizens to keep them subdued and dependent so they will never rise up against the government....so long as the entitlement programs continue.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by Eli » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 15:00:11
I would ask the mods to remove the rant above it is completely off topic.
And remove this one too.
And remove this one too.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by NotMyBlood » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 17:52:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'W')ell, I know alot of american taxes go to Oil Infrastructure and maintenance and god knows what else....I dont know the exact figure or breakdown.....
WRONGMost American taxes goes to "entitlement programs"....just like Europe. What is that? It's government benefits that people feel "entitled to". It's the stuff that governments give to their citizens to keep them subdued and dependent so they will never rise up against the government....so long as the entitlement programs continue.
Well, I dont claim to know for certain, but I did read somewhere that the reason America has such cheap gas is because the Government(our taxes) gives the Oil Companies subsidies.
But, Like I said, I dont know much about it. I'm not doing the research either, its not that important to me.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any
by BigArnie » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 19:35:03
Geez, what a touchy bunch of buggers you are! I thought that the democracy that your government is so liberally spreading all around the world is all about freedom of speech. I guess I was wrong.
Anyways, you leave me no choice but to explain myself considering these allegations of trolling, despite the fact that I'm in no mood to type a thesis.
Right, let's recap, shall we:
This thread started with this statement:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'T')he only reason oil's not already 100 bucks a barrel is that so many 3rd world countries that could buy it at 30 bucks but can't at 75 bucks have dropped out of the bidding, thus creating "a lack of demand".
Anyways, you leave me no choice but to explain myself considering these allegations of trolling, despite the fact that I'm in no mood to type a thesis.
Right, let's recap, shall we:
This thread started with this statement:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'T')he only reason oil's not already 100 bucks a barrel is that so many 3rd world countries that could buy it at 30 bucks but can't at 75 bucks have dropped out of the bidding, thus creating "a lack of demand".
Even my very feeble little African mind was able to tell that this statement is just plain wrong. How come, you ask? Well, for starters did you know that the annual economic growth rate in sub-Saharan Africa has been above the world average for at least the last 10 years?
I won't go into specifics here for a lack of space but the fact is that our economy is not only growing; its positively booming. Sure, these are some of the poorest countries in the world we're talking about but please show me where exactly is this demand destruction you're claiming? I don't see it. Our roads are congested to the point of gridlock and it is just getting worse and worse. We are definitely still buying oil and lots of it!
What happened next? Zardoz responded to the original statement by saying this:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')hose who claim we can live with high oil prices have no idea of what is going on in the poorest parts of the world.
This is only the barest beginning.
Well, I do. I live here. I think I'm qualified to answer. I see abject poverty around me every day. There are probably at least TEN THOUSAND homeless people with NOTHING squatting within a radius of ten kilometres from where I stay.
The thing that you don't understand here is that, in most Africa countries, you've got two more or less separate societies living side by side. On the one hand you've got the homeless masses. These people are normally poorly skilled, unemployed and have pretty bleak prospects. My heart bleed for these people. They are my brothers and they suffer terribly.
On the other hand you've got the modern westernized society that operates along pretty similar lines to what you are used to in the USA. The important thing to keep in mind is that, when you're experiencing sustained economic growth, you get significant growth of the western segment of the economy.
In South Africa, for instance, it is estimated that at least FIVE MILLION people have joined the ranks of the westernised middle class during the last few years. It is this vast emerging middle class that is fuelling economic growth in Southern Africa. This is also true for all the countries neighbouring South Africa with one notable exception namely Zimbabwe which I would recommend that we leave as a topic for another discussion, though.
In fact, the economy of Mozambique, which was considered the poorest country in the world in the early nineties is growing at a sustained 10% plus per annum. That percentage of growth ranks right up there with China and India, might I add.
The bottom line is that the sustained economic growth in Africa (as a continent) which is sitting at around 5% per annum if I recall correctly has done nothing that indicates demand destruction.
The plot thickens:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', 'S')o, let's see... North Korea gone, Cuba gone, sub-Saharan Africa gone... ehh... who's next? And after that?
Sub-Saharan Africa gone. Gone where? If I were to drop you off blindfolded at any one of a thousand places in sub-Saharan Africa before removing the blindfold and then asking you to name the place I bet you would say something like Perth, Australia or Los Angeles, California. In the Gauteng province of South Africa you can drive in a straight line for 200 kilometetres without leaving the city. I would be the first to admit that sub-Saharan Africa faces huge obstacles but to say that it is "gone" is, to say the least, offensive.
And so the story continues...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'T')he rest of the world is poor, so what? They are use to it and probably happier people. Will sned them are leftovers (sic)...
If MacG's statement was offensive then this statement clocks right off the offensiveness-scale! Not worthy of further comment apart from the following: Come here and I'll show you where you can stuff your leftovers. 'Nuff said.
Then we got to this:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'P')eople have been turning a blind eye to Africa for a long time like it has already been said.
What is anyone supposed to do about Africa?
On the whole it seems like a terribly screwed up place. It is all tribal and sectarian, since the colonist's have left or been forced out it has only gotten worse. Disease, famine, poverty, ignorance, tribalism these are the things Africa can produce in abundance.
So what has the color of my skin got to do with any of this? Why are people so obsessed by race? I see myself as an African. I can trace my direct ancestry in this country back to 1681. I am as much part of this country as anybody else.