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Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy anymore

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby HEADER_RACK » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 20:48:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', 'W')hat happens if/when I can't afford gasoline?

Let's see.. my job will probably survive peak oil (I lecture at an agrarian school... lol), so all I need is to get there, which I can do by bicycle. The roads will be empty by then, so cycling will be safe (today it is NOT).


I have always found this thought amusing (my job will survive peak oils effects) My job won't and I work in the OIL FIELD!!
Let's try and connect the dots shall we.
Ok you lecture at an agraian school and you can get to work cycling. Can the students you lecture to all get to class? Have to have someone to teach. Can the other proffessors and lectures get to campus? Can't have a school with only one or two classes.Can the dean of the school get to campus? Have to have a boss to run the programs.Can the ladies in accounting get there to write you a check for your work? You do want to get paid I suppose. Lets hope the lady at the bank can get to work to,to process your check,along with her boss. Have to have someone in charge. Does your job bank at the same one you do? If not now we need empoyees from both banks to be able to get to work. Chances are these are just small branches that must be connected to larger ones. So they all have to be able to get to work. Everything runs on electricity so lets hope the people at the electric company can get to work to keep the power on. Running water also hope they can all get to work to keep the water running for toilets and sinks at least.
Now that took me about two minutes and I don't know squat about agrarian lecuturing. I wonder how many people I just listed have to go to work just so you can have a job? I'm sure you can think of alot more if you just sit down and think about it.
The system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil).
No Job is safe when it starts to run out.
Nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose but has everything left to gain.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Zardoz » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 20:58:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'T')he system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil). No job is safe when it starts to run out.

As we can see, some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The ill effects will be systemic, not localized, and certainly not individualized.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby HEADER_RACK » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 21:29:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'T')he system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil). No job is safe when it starts to run out.

As we can see, some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The ill effects will be systemic, not localized, and certainly not individualized.


So true.People forget to look at the big picture. They fail to relize what all has to take place for society to function. They are only mainly aware of their little niche in it.
I connected the dots once for my job, EGADS what a nightmare!!
Thats when I knew that you didn't have to run out of oil to shut it all down, just run out of enough to keep it from functioning and I'm in the industry thats supposed to keep it running.
Nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose but has everything left to gain.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Eli » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 21:40:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'T')he system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil). No job is safe when it starts to run out.

As we can see, some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The ill effects will be systemic, not localized, and certainly not individualized.


Yeah that is the truth.

I remember reading some story about a reporter in Cuba, who found out his cabbie also was a physician. That is the way things will work,it is going to be a mad scramble to stay afloat.

15%,15%,15% it is going to be like we are all stranded at sea and we all are going to struggle just to stay alive.
Last edited by Eli on Mon 30 Jul 2007, 23:05:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Concerned » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 22:57:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'T')he system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil). No job is safe when it starts to run out.

As we can see, some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The ill effects will be systemic, not localized, and certainly not individualized.


Yeah that is the truth.

I remember reading some story about I reporter in Cuba, who found out his cabbie also was a physician. That is the way things will work,it is going to be a mad scramble to stay afloat.

15%,15%,15% it is going to be like we are all stranded at sea and we all are going to struggle just to stay alive.


Lots of uni grads, Phd's and Masters driving cabs in Aussie, sure they might be from India from example a degree is no gurantuee for a good job.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby cube » Mon 30 Jul 2007, 23:25:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '.')..
We already pay about $7 a gallon. We could pay double without pain if the price increases incrementally over a couple of years.


That may be true but....

You get most of the money back in the form of government services. Lets assume gas costs $2 and taxes are $5 / gallon. If you didn't pay that $5 tax you would of had to pay taxes in other areas either that or make do with less government services. What did you lose? --> nothing.

PO will be different. When fuel costs rise your money will go to some weird person who lives in a palace in the Middle East.....instead of those wonderful public transit systems I keep on hearing about in Europe. :lol:
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby mmasters » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 01:12:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'T')he system is woven tightly. It is made to function as a team that is run on oil, (cheap oil). No job is safe when it starts to run out.

As we can see, some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The ill effects will be systemic, not localized, and certainly not individualized.


Yup, and with globalization the system is becoming even more fragile and dependant.

So as long as the status quo continues we're headed off a cliff into complete destruction.

The status quo can't continue though, that's ridiculous. The disaster clock can be pushed back by a decade or two by way of severe economic destruction in the next few years.

Add to that war (blame going around for the bad economy), viruses reducing the population, etc... and a huge amount of people working towards the energy problem and I would predict a brutal powerdown scenario happening for the majority in 2025-2040. Not many of us are likely to survive that.

I really have to question this biological drive of mine to have a kid... :cry:
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby frankthetank » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 01:24:40

Really don't know about this Africa stuff too much. I know that a bunch of butchers run the show in some countries, and i'm guessing the US and Europe still have a ton of control over the resources there. I'd say that we here in the US will feel PO a hell of a lot more then some tribal warrior in Zaire.

I'm running away to Hallstatt in Austria... PBS' Rick Steves convinced me that the salt mines are a great hiding spot. Anyone want to come?
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby MonteQuest » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 02:47:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', ' ')We already pay about $7 a gallon. We could pay double without pain if the price increases incrementally over a couple of years.


Good lord! What ever happened to critical thinking?

Care to rethink that statement?
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby BigArnie » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 03:32:09

Having lived in Africa all my life, I find it amusing how ill-informed Westerners are about what is really happening over here.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Zardoz » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 03:44:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigArnie', 'H')aving lived in Africa all my life, I find it amusing how ill-informed Westerners are about what is really happening over here.

Please enlighten us ill-informed Westerners. What is really happening over there?
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby BigArnie » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 03:54:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'P')lease enlighten us ill-informed Westerners. What is really happening over there?

Sorry man, I'm not in a mood for a lot of typing right now. Maybe later. Suffice to say that the Western perception of us Africans is seriously skewed. And yes, I know that I'm generalizing; there are obviously exceptions.

Why don't you come and have a look for yourself? You're welcome to crash at my place while you're here. And don't worry about the lions and elephants; I'm friends with them :)
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Blacksmith » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 05:27:31

Really I could give a rats ass about Africa. I have enough trouble worrying about here. Though thank god for the three South African doctors we have in the nearest town, their perception was their feet.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby whereagles » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 05:38:36

Header_rack, my job sits in the middle of a densly populated area. Everybody can cycle there. In a post peak scenario, local food production will be too important for the school to be shut down.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby BigArnie » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 05:39:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'R')eally I could give a rats ass about Africa. I have enough trouble worrying about here.

The feeling is reciprocal, dude.

Still, your cosy little Western lifestyle depends in no small measure on the raping of African natural resources by wealthy countries like yours.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Gazzatrone » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 06:17:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', '
')
I think Africa's a perfect test case for the rest of civilization, myself.


On the face of it you could be right, but consider that in real terms, many in Africa have a lifestyle that could be argued, is already a lifestyle without oil.

I wouldn't consider Africa to be a test case for the simple reason is that they do not have far to fall. I'm not saying life is easy, far from it. But mentally and psychologically, you cannot grieve for something you never had. Which is the case will be in the Developed World. And trust me, try arguing this with people who have ambition and goals in life, and you pull the rug from under them. They DO NOT like it.

The countries to look for signs of struggle will be those just above what is considered to be developing. For instance many Balitic states in Europe for instance
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby kevincarter » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 06:41:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigArnie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'R')eally I could give a rats ass about Africa. I have enough trouble worrying about here.

The feeling is reciprocal, dude.

Still, your cosy little Western lifestyle depends in no small measure on the raping of African natural resources by wealthy countries like yours.


I was on a African conference the other day, they had invited big personalities from all over the african contient. I was shocked by the statement of the "leader" of the group when she told a room ful of journalists "Please come and invest in Africa, we have lots and lots of resources, both natural and human, very unexpensive, you'll make big profits, we have timber, diamonds, oil, metals, just come and invest, we'll let you take it" she whent on and on about how we could polute as much as we wanted or do anyhting that we pleased.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby BigArnie » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 06:54:05

Indeed so, Kevin.

There's a saying that we have around here that goes something like this: In a Western democracy you have absolute rights but no freedom. In Africa you have absolute freedom but no rights.

From personal experience I would venture to say that there is more than a little truth in that statement. Over here you can pretty much do whatever you like, provided of course that you've got the necessary funds to lubricate the cogs of the burocracy with, of course. Law abiding citizens like myself have to deal with a general state of lawlessness on a daily basis. It sounds worse than it is, though.
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby kevincarter » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 06:54:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', ' ')my job sits in the middle of a densly populated area.


Then you are screwed

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', ' ')Everybody can cycle there. In a post peak scenario, local food production will be too important for the school to be shut down.


Local food does not grow inside a classroom, as shocking as it may sound for an a agricultural teacher. You probably teach (I hope I'm wrong) that food is produced, not grown, and there is quite a mentality difference in that. Love for the land vs. love for production. The whole food production system depends mostlly on oil right now (and government money), from seeds engineered in special labs to transportation. You may play a keyrole in the future, but I guess that keyrole won't be happening in campus.

I'm curious, what do you think about GM food?
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Re: Here's what happens when you can't afford the energy any

Postby Zardoz » Tue 31 Jul 2007, 09:19:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigArnie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'P')lease enlighten us ill-informed Westerners. What is really happening over there?

Sorry man, I'm not in a mood for a lot of typing right now. Maybe later. Suffice to say that the Western perception of us Africans is seriously skewed. And yes, I know that I'm generalizing; there are obviously exceptions.

Why don't you come and have a look for yourself? You're welcome to crash at my place while you're here. And don't worry about the lions and elephants; I'm friends with them :)

You don't live in Africa any more than I do. You're as American as apple pie.

What an obvious troll...
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