[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hy are rich people cheap?

[128shot]

It would be even more smart to invest 50% of your earnings and retire.....


That'd be the best bang for your buck.

[threadbear]

Alright already! People on welfare spend money mindlessly, even though they are poor as churchmice. It beggars belief, but I have to trust your own experiences. It just amazes me how damned crazy people are.

I had to go on disbility for a year during a provincial austerity program in B.C. I had 400.00 per month, after rent, to live on and our food prices at that time (14 years ago) were close to double the food costs in the US at the time. Out of that 400.00, utilities, phone, food, clothing, etc... A pizza, at 20.00, was completely out of the question, as was any convenience food. Car? Forget it. I ate a lot of rice and beans. Fortunately, I'd always been frugal, so it wasn't a complete crisis for me. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I'd been used to living high on the hog.

This is what drives me bananas about the "cradle to grave" security idea that foreigners have about Canada. There is some security, but it obviously works differently here than in the States. Welfare recipients here are often rabbity looking, wear second hand clothing, and are rarely overweight. There is no way on god's green earth you can afford new clothing EVER, nor convenience food, unless you are prostituting, babysitting, or pushing drugs on the side.

I talked to someone fairly high up in Human Resources and Welfare, a year prior, when I was running a business, who told me that welfare for people without children, was kept artificially low, because it was assumed , within the ministry, that they were making some cash on the side. The disability end of the program was based on the same equation, though, with an extra 100.00 bucks kicked in. This put sick people who couldn't work on the side, in dire poverty.

Plants, it's no wonder you were so poor. Your parents, for whatever reason, seemed to have been, more than anything, just kind of passive in the face of poverty. Were they depressed, alcoholic, thoroughly demoralized? I just find it hard to fathom.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissimulo', 'M')y neighbor is on welfare. She and her ever-changing cast of room mates, men-folk, and friends are the most wasteful and foolish people I have ever seen. She has the most expensive available cable package ($$). Her power gets cut off every other month and she ends up paying the fees to be reconnected ($$) a few days later. She always has plenty of alcohol ($$) and cigarettes ($$). Her trash pile is always full of pizza ($$) boxes. The closest pizza take-out place is 30 miles away and they don't deliver out here, so she must be driving to pick those up ($$).

She has had three cars ($$) in the last year, although she has a suspended license, which she has been busted for and has a pending court case ($$). She parks the cars in the road (at the end of the road). She has had them towed at least twice ($$), but she doesn't learn the lesson. She has three dogs and eight cats ($$). She is always buying something that is a real "deal", that then turns out to be broken (computers ($$), TVs ($$), gadgets of all sorts ($$)). She gets welfare handymen to fix these treasures, but they inevitably end up decorating her yard before long.

She lives out here, 30 miles from the nearest grocery store, with no possibility of local employment (she has a deal with a relative - gets free rent, but the relative reports that she pays rent). She goes to the local convenience market, 2 miles away, at least once per day. She drives ($$).

She shot off what appeared to be a few hundred dollars worth of illegal fireworks on July 4th ($$). Hell, I'd probably celebrate like that too if I got an all-expenses-paid lifestyle on the tab of the US taxpayer.

[WisJim]

I have noticed that some people just can't seem to ever get ahead. For many it is a lack of family support or knowledge--no one ever taught them to actually shop, just to go buy what they need. "Shopping", to me, means some kind of choice and selection. You decide what you want/need, how good of quality, how much you want to spend etc. Buying is just going out and getting the nearest/easiest version of what you want or need.
Many poor don't have a car or other reliable transportation and therefore can't take advantage of a good deal across town. I, with a reliable car, and extra money in the savings account, can wait for a good deal before I buy something. The poor may not have a freezer, canner, refrigerator, or the other means by which I can stockpile surplus or bargain food. They can't buy ahead. They may buy what looks cheapest to them and pass up what is really a better buy.

It can be a complex situation.

[Blacksmith]

A lifetime has taught me that you don't own your possesions, they own you.

[I_Like_Plants]

Some very good posts here.

Threadbear, I believe you, Canada sounds like it's not a good place to be poor, in fact the only good places to be poor are in places like Belieze, if Joe Bageant is right about the place, where poor is the norm.

Yes my parents were seriously fucked up.

Yes I appear to have "inherited" poor money management skills.

I think one thing was, I have a fear that if I save up, it will get taken from me - understandable when you know that that's what happened to me as a kid. Now, intellectually, I know this does not happen too often, although in my present financial crisis and credit trouble, that is exactly what will happen. So, I will have to save up "Gypsy style" which means "save up" skills that can be used to turn a buck under almost any circumstances. Caricature drawing or being a hotshot on a musical instrument are good examples. I'd say caricature drawing is probably the most useful, since it's not noisy and is tolerated in places it's not tolerated to whip out an instrument and start busking. This is good, since it will take me years to get good on an instrument but the basic caricature and art-in-general skills are there.

In fact I'd say anyone here, everyone, would be best off to think in terms of "saving up" = acquiring useful skills.

Growing food.
Working with animals
Medical skills
Craft skills
Shoemaking
Entertainment skills (sounds frivolous now, wait'll iPods are no longer available)

Etc.

Where I am going I hope to be able to work on food raising and foraging skills, craft skills, and of course caricature/art skills. In this respect, "saving up" skills, I'll be much better off than I was in Silicon Valley driving a fancy Prius around.

[azreal60]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no way on god's green earth you can afford new clothing EVER, nor convenience food, unless you are prostituting, babysitting, or pushing drugs on the side.

[zannebee]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissimulo', 'M')y neighbor is on welfare. She and her ever-changing cast of room mates, men-folk, and friends are the most wasteful and foolish people I have ever seen. She has the most expensive available cable package ($$). Her power gets cut off every other month and she ends up paying the fees to be reconnected ($$) a few days later. She always has plenty of alcohol ($$) and cigarettes ($$). Her trash pile is always full of pizza ($$) boxes. The closest pizza take-out place is 30 miles away and they don't deliver out here, so she must be driving to pick those up ($$).

She has had three cars ($$) in the last year, although she has a suspended license, which she has been busted for and has a pending court case ($$). She parks the cars in the road (at the end of the road). She has had them towed at least twice ($$), but she doesn't learn the lesson. She has three dogs and eight cats ($$). She is always buying something that is a real "deal", that then turns out to be broken (computers ($$), TVs ($$), gadgets of all sorts ($$)). She gets welfare handymen to fix these treasures, but they inevitably end up decorating her yard before long.

She lives out here, 30 miles from the nearest grocery store, with no possibility of local employment (she has a deal with a relative - gets free rent, but the relative reports that she pays rent). She goes to the local convenience market, 2 miles away, at least once per day. She drives ($$).

She shot off what appeared to be a few hundred dollars worth of illegal fireworks on July 4th ($$). Hell, I'd probably celebrate like that too if I got an all-expenses-paid lifestyle on the tab of the US taxpayer.