[EnergyUnlimited]

There are few medical threads around regarding possible problems with dentistry and antibiotic supply.

Now, what about giving birth?
Hospitals will perhaps still be around, but hygiene standards there may fall so much, that it will no longer be a good deal to attempt to give birth there.
You don't want to get infected underneath with S. aureus resistant to everything except of red hot iron, do you?

BTW my second son was born at home as my wife refused to go to hospital. So one room was converted into hospital for a while with midwife, obstetrician and plenty of medical hardware around, but that was high tech and irrelevant in that context.

Anyway giving birth a natural phenomenon so any lady should be able to cope in a barn (taken away there to spear other members of family hearing horrible, loud noises).
Once the baby is out she should bite off umbilical cord, eat placenta back and everything should be fine, right?

I wander, what medical hardware except of ear plugs for eventual attendant could be organized in post peak world under that scenario.
Any ideas?

[wisconsin_cur]

In ages past plenty of women died in child birth. Add to that the experience of modern medicine which has kept plenty of women alive to pass on whatever genetic "hardware" problems might have killed them in the past and you have the set up for a bad few decades of female deaths due to childbirth.

I'm reminded of a church cemetery in Kansas I visited once. The congregation lost so many members the first decade of settlement that there were 2-3 remarriages per person (unless you were among the first to die I suppose). The question came up, who should be buried next to who? The resolution: whenever you dropped dead you got stuck in the next plot in sequence. You were buried next to whoever died just before or after you.

That being said a lot of what is done during childbirth may be unnecessary precaution. For example my first was born by c-section just because he was breach. I was born breach (a la natural) with normal expected complications but no "real" risk to mom.

Yes, I know there are plenty of other examples where c-section saves the life of child and or mother. And It will suck to be them post peak.

[Evltre]

A good number of women who died in childbirth historically died because of infection. Once midwives/Dr's/nurses figured out they should be washing their hands deaths dropped dramatically. Sure, there are still those who would die without medical intervention - but the numbers would still be a lot less now than 500 years ago.

My stepmother is a midwife - has been for 35 years. The actual % of babies she's birthed where the mother and/or child would have died without high tech medical intervention is really low. Of course being a midwife she only cares for the straight forward pregnancies of healthy young(ish) women - she doesn't deal with older mothers or high risk cases so that probably skews her numbers a bit! I wouldn't like to be having my first baby over the age of 35-40 in (doomer style) post peak world.

I've done it twice, no problem!

[frankthetank]

Better learn how to do a C section!!! I'm not kidding, you look at the doctor funny and he'll order a C section. My wife is about to have a baby and the baby right now might be breached. He already uttered that one syllable. We both don't want to come to that because A)You can have major complications from that since they cut you pretty good B)its EXPENSIVE.

I'm wondering if you couldn't find an Amish or a retired doctor or something to help out. Humans have been reproduction for 1000's of years and i don't think its rocket science.

Remember a bare bones pregnancy right now is a tad over $10000 (with insurance, i'm guessing less if you paid cash). C Section jump above $20,000. Any complications and you are off to outer space. My neice was in the hospital for nearly a month (this was years ago) and her bill was almost $80,000 (insurance paid for that).

So save your gold nuggest/don't get pregnant/learn how to do it yourself. I told my wife i've got a utility knife, some bleach and a MAPP blow torch if we should need to stop the bleeding??? She wasn't laughing.

[WisJim]

Two of my sons were born at home, but the first was born in a hospital because we didn't know any better. 99% of c-sections are for the convenience of the doctor or the parents, not for medical reasons. Hospital births just take a simple natural process and put it in a germ-filled environment, the hospital, where the medical industry can make more money from it. A responsible mid wife will make sure the expectant mother has had exams and good prenatal care, and have medical back up considered if it might be needed.

[cynthia]

Now why am I not surprised several have posted regarding their homebirths or positive attitude towards them. Kind of in keeping with those of us who question the norm and seek information that makes sense rather than following what everyone else is doing.
FYI: First child cesarean the second a homebirth. The latter more pleasant and recovery was a snap.
Heading into my menopause years so not worried about babies (yes, we're being very careful).
Yet, it occurs to me that in the absence of technology that cheap oil provides, there will not be the same options: saving prematurely born infants, life-saving surgeries for defects, and of course cesarean surgeries.
cynthia

[steam_cannon]

Does anyone think an analgesic like poppy tea could be useful for childbirthing? In the US it's legal to possess and use pounds of poppy seeds, perhaps that would be a good thing to have around...

Poppy Tea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_tea

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'O')piates depress respiration, which is not a good thing to do to a baby as it's trying to take it's first breath. IMO.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'O')piates depress respiration, which is not a good thing to do to a baby as it's trying to take it's first breath. IMO.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'O')piates depress respiration, which is not a good thing to do to a baby as it's trying to take it's first breath. IMO.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'B')ut just because hospitals commonly use opiates during births doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '.')..And other variations of opioids are used during the later stages...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he three painkilling drugs available at the Jessop Hospital are Diamorphine, Pethidine and Meptazinol...

* Diamorphine(opioid): in early labour because it has a longer length of action.

[WisJim]

Any woman thinking of having a baby should read something by Ana May Gaskin http://www.inamay.com/ and check out the Farm Mives website http://www.thefarm.org/charities/mid.html

Ana May is a very inspirational speaker, also, and worth going to see if the opportunity arises.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'T')his subject is very emotional for me, because it breaks my heart the way most births are handled in my country. Babies in plastic boxes instead of being held constantly, their butts wrapped in plastic, given shots and heel pricks, not being put to the breast right away or at all, their mothers hooked up to tubes and doped up... Pregnancy and birth are not a disease and shouldn't be treated as such by default. I probably should stay out of this thread beyond what I've already said.

[cavemandoom30]

I've thought about this quite a bit myself..I've read lots of widely varying statistics re: historical maternal mortality rates, in any case, I checked wikipedia, and here is what they have to say..

[edit] Maternal death rates in the 20th century
The death rate for women giving birth plummeted in the 20th century.

At the beginning of the century, maternal death rates were around their historical level of nearly 1 in 100 for live births. The number today in the United States is 1 in 10,000, a decline by a factor of 100.

The decline in maternal deaths has been due largely to improved asepsis, use of caesarean section, fluid management and blood transfusion, and better prenatal care.

My own grandmother gave birth to 13 children, all natural, all at home, with no problems..I always think of that..however, it seems like maybe some women are perhaps more prone to tragic complications?
Cleanliness seems to really be the simplest way to save the mother and child, , beyond that, it starts to get ugly...

[WildRose]

Preventing infection will be of utmost importance, as it is now.

Some true emergencies will be difficult to handle without the benefits of modern equipment, and I would guess that fetal deaths will increase more than maternal deaths.

When my first child was born (in hospital), I had been in labor all day and was not dilating, and the fetal monitor indicated decelerations in baby's heart rate. My obstetrician told me very gently that there was a problem and C-section was necessary right then, and later I was glad that I had not argued with him about it. It turned out that my daughter, who had not yet entered the birth canal (that's why I was not dilating), had the cord looped around her neck 5 times. Had she descended into the birth canal like that, she would have been asphyxiated. My other two children were VBACs, born naturally.

Other emergencies, for example, an abruptio placenta, would have high infant mortality rates and mother would go into shock; also, infection would be a big risk. Also, I wonder what would be done in the case of cephalopelvic disproportion, where baby's head is too large for the mom's pelvic outlet. Or, if the cord was descending through the birth canal before baby.

If there are any midwives or obstetrical nurses on the forum, do you have any ideas as to how these emergencies could be handled to lessen the chance of fetal and maternal mortality? It would be great to hear from you, as I am sure your experience with these emergencies is valuable.

[cynthia]

Until a midwife answers, Wildrose, I will add my knowledge regarding minimizing complications during childbirth.
It was thought by my two midwives that my first child's cesarean birth could have possibly been averted by making me lay down instead of the hours and hours of walking I insisted on doing. I literally tried to walk away from the pain. It also did not help to be in a strange room. My ex-husband grew tired and watched Benny Hill while I struggled with labor. (I hated Benny Hill at home I certainly didn't want it for a background during labor and perhaps that contributed to his becoming an ex).
Hospitals function on the physical level and it is the first time you meet your attendants. They were nice enough but only offered me things like Dramamine (to make me relax) and then the next trick was to go at me with a crochet hook to break my waters in hopes it would stimulate labor. After 24 hours of not enough progress, the surgery was called and I didn't even see my obstetrican until right before I was anesthetized. He made the decision with the nurse, who told me what was decided! (Cephalo pelvic disproportion was the medical diagnosis but I believe under different circumstances, I would have had a vaginal birth. BTW, my first child weighed 8.15# and my second child 9#).
Midwives go beyond the physical. By attentively tending the birthing mom, fear is reduced, pain is talked through and the cheering section never flags. My midwives used homeopathy, herbal tinctures and hydrotherapy.
At one point duringf my homebirth, labor stalled. They suggested my husband and I kiss and snuggle for a bit (yes, they left the room). Believe me, it was the last thing I had in mind but within a few minutes, my waters broke and labor headed right into transition and then birth. The miracle of naturally stimulated hormones.
Skilled midwives can turn (some) breeches, minimize tearing, and overall provide more support than the modern obstetrician who breezes into the room in time to do the episiotomy (thank gawd I escaped that barbarous practice) and this after short prenatal office visits- compared to the hour long home visits my midwives conducted.
Not every mom and baby can be saved during a crisis birth. It's a fact of life that has been nearly, but not quite erased by the miracle of cheap oil and resulting byproducts.
This culture supresses death at all costs with few exceptions. I imagine in our lifetime (I'm 49) we'll see the life-saving options decline along with cheap oil.
Ina Mae Gaskin wrote Spiritual Midwifery which I read while pregnant with the Benny Hill husband. I so wanted a homebirth then but he didn't believe women's bodies worked properly so planning a child with him meant a hospital birthing room compromise.
I became close friends with one of my midwives after my second child was born. I would happily have her weigh in on this discussion if she hadn't died of ovarian cancer in 2001. During our friendship, I learned much of her birthing adventures/practices. Rarely they offered a pitocin (pit) drip to stimulate a stagnate labor. Yes they carried oxygen (what a boost that was post birth when I was feeling overwhelmed). But mostly they used their hands, herbs and words to coach their moms and babes.
I still have the bumper sticker on my truck my midwife friend gave me, "Dare To Keep Your Kids off Drugs: Have a Homebirth."
Midwifery will be an important skill post peak.
cynthia

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cynthia', '
')Midwives go beyond the physical. By attentively tending the birthing mom, fear is reduced, pain is talked through and the cheering section never flags. My midwives used homeopathy, herbal tinctures and hydrotherapy....

I became close friends with one of my midwives after my second child was born. I would happily have her weigh in on this discussion if she hadn't died of ovarian cancer in 2001. During our friendship, I learned much of her birthing adventures/practices. Rarely they offered a pitocin (pit) drip to stimulate a stagnate labor. Yes they carried oxygen (what a boost that was post birth when I was feeling overwhelmed). But mostly they used their hands, herbs and words to coach their moms and babes.
I still have the bumper sticker on my truck my midwife friend gave me, "Dare To Keep Your Kids off Drugs: Have a Homebirth."
Midwifery will be an important skill post peak.
cynthia

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
C-Sections have been performed for centuries, and for good reason.
yes, there are times when they are stupid and not necessary. Yes, we play around with nature. We have a neighbor who is pregnant and ready to deliver in the next two weeks. they are inducing labor tomorrow so the baby will be born on the father's birthday.
My daughter had placenta previa with her first pregnancy, and almost bled to death. A C-Section saved her life.
her next pregnancy was with twin boys, both 7 pounds. A C-Section saved the lives of all 3. She never could have delivered the twins.
I volunteer at a food bank. We constantly have people coming into the food bank for free formula, free diapers, and free or near free infant clothing. The people in question repeatedly have babies, and they usually start out doing this at an alarmingly young age.
My advice. Don't get pregnant. Not now. It is just way too expensive.
Pheba, from the farm.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', ' ') My wife is about to have a baby and the baby right now might be breached.