[I_Like_Plants]

There was a conversation about this on the Craig's List frugal living forum, and it's really got me thinking......

For instance, I've spent many years of my life poor. Had to be frugal to survive, so basically I was forced to be.

But I lived for the day I'd have a car. I lived for the day I'd have "credit". I spent money on stupid things like a scientific calculator (when I could program the computers at work/college for free) and a small motorcycle when my 50cc scooter worked fine.

Other poor people I knew were buying cars with monthly payments they could ill afford. They'd get tattoos or jewelry or both. They'd spend on new clothes and things, that were just "goodies". Nowadays it's cars, big trucks, cell phones, and big TVs.

The true "frugs" I've known have had it all, or have had at least a good middle-class standard of living and turned away from materialism because they've become tired of it. They've been there, done that. They trade off "high living" for security, the ultimate comfort. Ultimate comfort is being able to live on nothing. These folks didn't do that, but they were sure frugal.

I think there's a misconception that poor people tend to be frugal, but while I'm sure some are, most are just living for someday, when they'll have the "bling". George Orwell in "The Road To Wigan Pier" states that when you're really down and out, you want a treat, or something "tasty". I concur.

Also, hunter-gatherers could afford to not worry too much about tomorrow, systematic famine only came with agriculture. H-G's tended to go hungry for short periods, then live it up when the hunting was good. Living for the moment worked for them because their savings were in skills, social networks, and in the ability to slow down and laze around when hunting was slow.

We are not H-G's though, we live in a money society and for most of us, it kicks our ass.

I think to be frugal you can't change your money, you have to change yourself.

[firestarter]

The depression changed both sets of my grandparents.

After the Depression my mother's parents were frugal and wealthy. Actually I think much of their wealth came out of their frugality. I don't know if they were as frugal before the Depression--mom says they were not--but they more than made up for lost time afterwards. In fact. I don"t recall them ever owning a late model vehicle.

My dad's parents were North Dakota farmers who were crushed by the Depression. Later in life they relocated to Chicago and lived uncomfortably, but they were fish out of water. They were poor enough that grandpa would, in the winter, have to empty the radiator on his car because he couldn't afford antifreeze. Eventually they accumulated enough money to purchase a home in the suburbs. I don't think they ever ate out. They were frugal to a fault but they would never have taken a handout unless, of course, their children were starving, which fortunately they weren't.

I don't think today's poor are generally cut out of the same cloth as our forbearer's. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part the word frugal is viewed as a four letter word. I guess entitlement is the working ethos with modern man, and that's too bad.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', '
')I don't think today's poor are generally cut out of the same cloth as our forbearer's. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part the word frugal is viewed as a four letter word. I guess entitlement is the working ethos with modern man, and that's too bad.

[firestarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '
')


I consider myself a frug in training. I will need lots of training.

[threadbear]

I have to hand it to you, Plants, your social commentary is second to none. I'm a security freak. Grew up in slightly poor military family, got a chronic illness when I was young and have been terrified of extreme poverty since then.

No matter how much money I have, I am agitated by the idea of poverty. Now that I have no immediate concerns for myself, I fear for other people. Your posts about what you are facing have almost made me cry.

I cut my own hair, don't drive a car (frugality and amblyopia) have never owned a camera, decent luggage, shop at consignment stores often.

I feel like I've lost a spiritual battle if I purchase too much, particularly if it's not necessary. As corny as it sounds, the realization that half the world is in want is a constant motivator to keep my footprint small.

[gampy]

I would think a goodly portion of people are poor because they are not frugal. Probably lazy as well. I can say this because I am one of those people.

Some folks don't have much, but they are secure and happy. I guess that is due to frugality, or discipline, or just not being caught up in the rampant consumerism of our times.

Some folks don't have anything because they are not too good with money and tend to piss it all away.

I imagine there is a difference between miserly and frugal. Miserly is pathological, and frugal is self disciplined.

There are frugal people of all economic strata, I suppose.

[eastbay]

I cut my own hair, don't drive a car (frugality and amblyopia) have never owned a camera, decent luggage, shop at consignment stores often.

I feel like I've lost a spiritual battle if I purchase too much, particularly if it's not necessary. As corny as it sounds, the realization that half the world is in want is a constant motivator to keep my footprint small.

Threadbear, I like the way you think. I too have cut my own hair for about 12 years. I shop for most things such as furniture and home supplies (rarely) at discount stores or online used. I bike or ride my scooter most of the time. Our house was built with AC and we've never used it. Every spare bit of soil on our small property is slowly being converted to growing food.

Low footprint. Right on.

[I_Like_Plants]

Yeah I cut my own hair, have learned to be uber-cheap with furniture, don't buy new clothes (I can get much higher quality used) and so on.

The smaller the footprint, the greater the security - and I'm a security freak too.

[peaker_2005]

I couldn't cut my hair to save my life... Then again, I wouldn't try with my eyes being below par sightwise.

My mum does, though. The hair trimming/cutting kit my mum bought to cut my late grandfather's hair still comes in handy every now and then.

The wife of a good friend of mine does hairdressing professionally, so there's that option too.

At any rate, I've always functioned on the philosophy of "if you ain't got the money, don't buy it". I don't, and probably never will, trust credit cards.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peaker_2005', 'I') couldn't cut my hair to save my life... Then again, I wouldn't try with my eyes being below par sightwise.

My mum does, though. The hair trimming/cutting kit my mum bought to cut my late grandfather's hair still comes in handy every now and then.

The wife of a good friend of mine does hairdressing professionally, so there's that option too.

At any rate, I've always functioned on the philosophy of "if you ain't got the money, don't buy it". I don't, and probably never will, trust credit cards.

[OilIsMastery]

It should be obvious to everyone by now that on the contrary it's the rich who are frugal. There have been several books published on this subject by Thomas J. Stanley among others.

[pup55]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')oor people tend to be frugal

[vision-master]

Why are rich people cheap?

[Chesire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', 'W')hen you are cheap you will end up rich.

If you would have put 5 dollars a day into a bank since you started working you would have 5 million dollars at retirement

everyone can put 5 dollars a day away, that is two hours at minimum wage.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')oor people tend to be frugal

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')That's absurd. How on earth can anyone on welfare afford to be anything but frugal? Give us an example of wild extravagence. A bag of cheetohs and a cup of coffee?

[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
That's absurd. How on earth can anyone on welfare afford to be anything but frugal? Give us an example of wild extravagence. A bag of cheetohs and a cup of coffee?

[dissimulo]

My neighbor is on welfare. She and her ever-changing cast of room mates, men-folk, and friends are the most wasteful and foolish people I have ever seen. She has the most expensive available cable package ($$). Her power gets cut off every other month and she ends up paying the fees to be reconnected ($$) a few days later. She always has plenty of alcohol ($$) and cigarettes ($$). Her trash pile is always full of pizza ($$) boxes. The closest pizza take-out place is 30 miles away and they don't deliver out here, so she must be driving to pick those up ($$).

She has had three cars ($$) in the last year, although she has a suspended license, which she has been busted for and has a pending court case ($$). She parks the cars in the road (at the end of the road). She has had them towed at least twice ($$), but she doesn't learn the lesson. She has three dogs and eight cats ($$). She is always buying something that is a real "deal", that then turns out to be broken (computers ($$), TVs ($$), gadgets of all sorts ($$)). She gets welfare handymen to fix these treasures, but they inevitably end up decorating her yard before long.

She lives out here, 30 miles from the nearest grocery store, with no possibility of local employment (she has a deal with a relative - gets free rent, but the relative reports that she pays rent). She goes to the local convenience market, 2 miles away, at least once per day. She drives ($$).

She shot off what appeared to be a few hundred dollars worth of illegal fireworks on July 4th ($$). Hell, I'd probably celebrate like that too if I got an all-expenses-paid lifestyle on the tab of the US taxpayer.

[vision-master]

Would anyone want to "HAVE to" fill this out?

http://edocs.dhs.state.mn.us/lfserver/L ... S-3469-ENG