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THE Mexico Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby IrrationalExuberanceMonky » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 19:32:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IrrationalExuberanceMonky', '"')Even if heavy investments were made now..."

About as much chance of that happening as Hugo Chavez having a round table with George Bush and the late Milton Friedman on Exxon acquiring PDVSA. :)

NOC cash cows, gotta love 'em. :roll:

Even if I dislike the NOC's as much as anyone else for hugging all the sweet spots, I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.


I'm far from being an expert on the oil industry, but everything I've read from experts indicates to maximize long term production of a field you need:

1. Experienced and skilled people in the field.
2. The latest technologys.
3. Conservative production rates.

Now NOC's and their basket case socialist "wealth re-distributors" don't seem to provide this. Chavez for example seems more concerned with sticking it to Bush, handing out freebies to South America in some kind of bizzare 'Neo-Bolivar revolution' and London (of all places). This along with staying in power is his action rather than maximizing production over the long term. This seems to be a pattern with NOC's and their dysfunctional governments. So I suggest if you agree with this MO, then you are not agreeing with the best interests of the peoples of the nations that's oil is controlled by NOC's. But maybe I'm misrepresenting you here?
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby Starvid » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 19:47:31

Well, Chavez has fucked up PDVSA, no question about that. But think of Saudi Aramco.

They definitely have
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')1. Experienced and skilled people in the field.
2. The latest technologys.
3. Conservative production rates.


If I ran an oil country, I would have a NOC to make sure that the locals got into the oil industry. Look at Norway for example. Even though they have peaked and are starting to run out of oil, they are making shitloads of money from a huge number of world class oil service companies, staffed and created by people who surely started their careers at Statoil or Norsk Hydro.

If you don't have that need, a NOC is not needed and you can replace it with punishing oil taxes or production sharing agreements (80-90 % of the oil profits going to the state is not unusual). It would be smart to link the tax levels to the price of oil. Then the IOC 's know that they'll get fair profits if they do their job, but that their profits will only grow through more efficient operations, not increasing oil prices. They'll also not have to worry about falling oil prices hurting their profits, as the tax would automatically be reduced in such a situation. Would help when you have to do massive long term capital investments.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby Chesire » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 21:24:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', 'L')et us remember that Mexico is the third largest exporter of oil to the US, after Canada and KSA. Will they use the remaining oil for internal consumption or send it all north to the US? If they stop exporting by choice, what do you think the US will do?

Give the mexicans a choice of oil or food. IE deal with the starving angry masses or keep sending the oil and postpone the day of reckoning for the collapse of mexico. Offer citizenship to all able bodied mexicans who enlist . Use them for cannon fodder in the coming GWFR Genocidal War For Resources perhaps ?
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby Micki » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 21:56:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')ntil December 31, 2005 the report says proven reserves were about 8.978 billion barrels, while yearly production was 1.322 billion tons. If this rhythm continues oil will run out in the time stipulated..

Proven reserves is the full amount not the economically retreivable amount, which is significantly less....right?
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby MonteQuest » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 23:33:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'B')etter get busy on that border fence.

From my Slow Decline thread, DEC 2004.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'P')eople in Third World countries, like Mexico, will do the only human thing, the thing we all would do in their circumstances--try to get into countries they perceive have wealth and jobs and energy.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 27 Jul 2007, 23:49:15

The oil squeeze has just begun

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roduction at Cantarell fell by 12% in 2006 and is forecast to fall an additional 15% in 2007.

In response, the Mexican government has increased Pemex's capital budget. In 2007, Pemex will invest $2.3 billion in Cantarell. A new water-separation plant will let Pemex handle well output with as much as 9% water. The company began drilling its first horizontal wells in 2006 in an effort to get more oil out of the Cantarell formation. That should slow the decline of production. Pemex projects that production will decline by only 200,000 barrels a day in 2007, about half the decline projected without these steps. But production is still on track to fall to 600,000 barrels a day by 2013 from 1.5 million barrels a day in 2007.



http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... spx?page=2
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 00:08:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'B')etter get busy on that border fence.

From my Slow Decline thread, DEC 2004.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'P')eople in Third World countries, like Mexico, will do the only human thing, the thing we all would do in their circumstances--try to get into countries they perceive have wealth and jobs and energy.

If anyone ever wonders why housing is cheaper in Texas than other parts of the country, just note its proximity to Mexico and the language being spoken on the job sites. This is the reason that no one REALLY wants to close the border--it would drive the cost of housing, food, and housecleaning WAY up.

And by the way, some of the illegal aliens coming here from Mexico are HIGHLY skilled in the trades. I watch some of those guys lay brick and stone sometimes and I am amazed at their efficiency, skill and endurance. And also, and I'm not joking here, some of those bands that walk around playing music in Mexican food restaurants have very good musicians in them.
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 00:25:37

Carlos Santana!
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby whereagles » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 09:13:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'C')arlos Santana!

That's great music :)
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby garyp » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 11:19:03

My rough prediction has Mexico effectively stopping exports in 2011, unless the US collapses its economy, when it might last till 2015.

Much depends on how long KMZ production can be held up with Nitrogen injection - but suggestion is only a few years - which suggests big declines in 2009
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 12:38:27

The magnitude of this can be easily seen when one looks at the numbers.
Mexico used to be the #2 supplier of oil to the US after Canada.
Now it is #4 after Venezuela.
It used to be 15% of our imported oil, now it is less than 10%.
Here is the changing face of oil imports to the US.
Nov 2005
#1 Canada
#2 Mexico (88% of exports to the US)
#3 Venezuela
#4 Saudi Arabia
#5 Nigeria
#6 Algeria
#7 Iraq
#8 Angola
#9 Ecuador
#10 Virgin Islands

July 2007
#1 Canada
#2 Saudi Arabia
#3 Venezuela
#4 Mexico
#5 Nigeria
#6 Algeria
#7 Iraq
#8 Russia
#9 United Kingdom
#10 Virgin Islands
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 13:25:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'l')educk: As for what is the U.S. doing to prepare?
Why waging war on the world, of course!

Doesn't it seem that Bush doesn't want to wait for the wars to start, so, he is arming some countries to stir the pot?

Bush seeks big boost in arms for Mideast allies Deal aimed at countering Iran would include controversial sale to Saudis
… Details of the proposed deal come as some U.S. officials contend that the Saudi government is not helping the situation in Iraq. The proposed package of advanced weapons for Saudi Arabia has also stoked concern in Israel and among its U.S. backers because it includes satellite-guided bombs, upgrades for its fighters and new naval vessels — systems that theoretically could be used for strikes on Israeli territory. …
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20003692/

U.S., India reach civilian nuclear deal Bush hails cooperation; critics worry about weapons proliferation
WASHINGTON - The United States and India said Friday they worked out differences that had impeded a plan to share civilian nuclear fuel and technology. They hailed a “historic milestone” in an accord that would reverse three decades of American anti-proliferation policy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19995001/
Last edited by Ferretlover on Wed 11 Jun 2008, 20:52:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mexico Acknowledges Mexican Peak - mira la tragedia

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 14:04:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'l')educk: As for what is the U.S. doing to prepare?
Why waging war on the world, of course!

Doesn't it seem that Bush doesn't want to wait for the wars to start, so, he is arming some countries to stir the pot?

Bush seeks big boost in arms for Mideast allies Deal aimed at countering Iran would include controversial sale to Saudis
… Details of the proposed deal come as some U.S. officials contend that the Saudi government is not helping the situation in Iraq. The proposed package of advanced weapons for Saudi Arabia has also stoked concern in Israel and among its U.S. backers because it includes satellite-guided bombs, upgrades for its fighters and new naval vessels — systems that theoretically could be used for strikes on Israeli territory. …
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20003692/

U.S., India reach civilian nuclear deal Bush hails cooperation; critics worry about weapons proliferation
WASHINGTON - The United States and India said Friday they worked out differences that had impeded a plan to share civilian nuclear fuel and technology. They hailed a “historic milestone” in an accord that would reverse three decades of American anti-proliferation policy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19995001/


IMO the biggest fear of the US Government and TPTB is that Islamic Fundamentalists will revolt in KSA and as a consequence cut 7 Mbd out of the world market. That would be the death knell for the current economy, even if the fighting didn't destroy the production capacity and oil came back onto the market after several months to a year. Globalization can not survive that kind of blow, so you arem the KSA gov to the hilt so they can stomp flat anyone thinking of revolting.
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
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Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 20:27:05

garyp said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y rough prediction has Mexico effectively stopping exports in 2011, unless the US collapses its economy, when it might last till 2015.


There is no doubt that the US will soon see a collapsing economy. The recent melt down in the bond market is assured to strip $5 to $7 trillion from that economy. By the first of the year, if not sooner, we will witness “official” acknowledgment that home values are tumbling by 4 to 6% per month. It has already happened, it is just that the median method of calculating home prices has been disguising it. This announcement will complete the unraveling of the nation’s monetary/financial system.

For the rest of the decade economic decline will lead the decline in oil production. We don’t have to worry about when Mexico will run out of oil, by the time they do we won’t be able to afford it anyway. We will hit bottom just before we hit the bottom of the well.
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby oiless » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 21:09:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')
If you don't have that need, a NOC is not needed and you can replace it with punishing oil taxes or production sharing agreements (80-90 % of the oil profits going to the state is not unusual). It would be smart to link the tax levels to the price of oil. Then the IOC 's know that they'll get fair profits if they do their job, but that their profits will only grow through more efficient operations, not increasing oil prices. They'll also not have to worry about falling oil prices hurting their profits, as the tax would automatically be reduced in such a situation. Would help when you have to do massive long term capital investments.


Or you can follow Canada's example and subsidize the hell out of the oil companies through various tax breaks, while charging minimal royalties, essentially giving the stuff away. :(
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby azreal60 » Sat 28 Jul 2007, 21:40:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow NOC's and their basket case socialist "wealth re-distributors" don't seem to provide this.


Umm... didn't mexico just elect a conservative pro american government? Pretty sure you can't blame mexico's declines on socialism. And while everyone blames chavez, from his point of view, not pulling the oil out of the ground at a fast rate would be a good thing wouldn't it? I mean, sucks for the countrys who want it. Among them mine. But from his point of view, heck from someone who's peak oil aware's point of view, he's doing the right thing by reducing production.

Something that always seems funny to me is, if we accept the fact that more oil isn't being produced underground thru some abiotic fantasy, then you have to accept the converse point. If you don't pump oil out of the ground, it's still there if you pump it later. Why would waiting till it's even higher in price not be a good move for the leader of a nation?
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby KevO » Sun 29 Jul 2007, 05:28:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('canis_lupus', 'S')eems to me if they mean "seven years" they really mean "pretty $@$% soon...anybody have any suggestions?"


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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 29 Jul 2007, 08:27:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow NOC's and their basket case socialist "wealth re-distributors" don't seem to provide this.


Umm... didn't mexico just elect a conservative pro american government? Pretty sure you can't blame mexico's declines on socialism. And while everyone blames chavez, from his point of view, not pulling the oil out of the ground at a fast rate would be a good thing wouldn't it? I mean, sucks for the countrys who want it. Among them mine. But from his point of view, heck from someone who's peak oil aware's point of view, he's doing the right thing by reducing production.

Something that always seems funny to me is, if we accept the fact that more oil isn't being produced underground thru some abiotic fantasy, then you have to accept the converse point. If you don't pump oil out of the ground, it's still there if you pump it later. Why would waiting till it's even higher in price not be a good move for the leader of a nation?


Conservative in Mexico means steady as she goes, keep all programs in place and keep the ruling elites happy by preventing an uprising. The guy who lost the election would probably be throwing the elites out ASAP which is why they put Calderone in instead.

As for VZ, I certainly would be reducing my output, but I would also be aware that if I reduce it too much or too fast I migth get invaded by my customers. It is a delicate balancing act, my neighbors to the north are dangerous if you make them think you are getting insanely ritch at their expense, so long as you play it cool they will give you te keys to the bank. The thing is 40 years ago you could have a foreign policy and speak a totally different domestic policy and nobody cared, today no matter what you say to which group the other is going to hear about it because of the ease of media.
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby Byron100 » Sun 29 Jul 2007, 12:08:23

If Mexico really does run out of oil to export, and therefore pulling the rug out of their economy, wouldn't it be prudent for the United States to support a communist-style government down there (remember, this is far different than the 80's, when we had the Soviet threat to be concerned about), which at least has the potential to put the brakes on the flood of refugees northward?

You gotta think, if 10% of the people down there starve, the streets of Mexico City would turn into rivers of blood, as well as triggering an unstoppable wave of refugees streaming into the United States, even in the face of being mowed down by desperate military forces stationed at the border. But if Mexico went communist, a la Cuba of the late 1950's, they would at least have a chance to redistribute the vast wealth of the upper class, keeping the people fed and content enough not to flee north or incite a massive civil war.

Feel free to shoot me down on this, just tossing out silly ideas as usual...hehe.
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Re: Mexican Company Predicts End of Oil

Unread postby Twilight » Sun 29 Jul 2007, 12:40:57

Communism is as resource-dependent and resource-intensive as capitalism. It is just a question of allocation.

Resource-wise, Cuba is in good shape. North Korea isn't.

How much potential does Mexico have? I think it will go the way of Colombia. In other words, it doesn't matter who wins, left or right, or whether there is a stalemate. The important details will be the same.
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