Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby I_Like_Plants » Sat 14 Jul 2007, 22:49:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '
')
With the cost of energy poised to shoot to the moon - I am not convinced these US shoe making factories are going to be economically viable.


No, I don't either, but this is the classical theory.

Shoemaking isn't a bad profession to go into though, whenever there's a disaster notice how suddenly shoes are direly needed. I went through most of childhood without them, so am suitable skeptical, but they really are needed. People will pay GOOD money for leather shoes fitted for their feet. Very few places in the US are compatible with going barefoot year around, and traditionally going barefoot in warmer areas is a good way to pick up parasites.

Nope things get that bad, a dollar worth 10 cents, we'll have bigger problems to worry about. But the person who can make shoes will have a valuable skill.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Roccland » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 22:10:36

Image
500 MPH into a brick wall - me
User avatar
Roccland
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby firestarter » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 22:23:51

Dollar in uncharted territory. Yen in Feb redux. Popcorn microwavin.
User avatar
firestarter
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sun 19 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby firestarter » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 22:28:35

A useful link tomorrow?:

Circut breaker
User avatar
firestarter
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sun 19 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -AT 80!!! ALL TIME LOW!!!!!!!!!

Postby Roccland » Fri 20 Jul 2007, 11:50:39

Image
500 MPH into a brick wall - me
User avatar
Roccland
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby jasonraymondson » Fri 20 Jul 2007, 16:29:27

link

{Shorten your links to prevent side scrolling please-jato}
jasonraymondson
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 2727
Joined: Wed 04 Jul 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Peace Out

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby evilgenius » Fri 20 Jul 2007, 17:10:36

Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke went to China in December and fixed the downfall. The wealth is tied to the structure in Asia, not Europe so as to fight the Euro bourse that the Russians are trying to set up. Keep an eye on the yen.

The current call for lower taxes fits this picture as well. The rich are going to be receiving income from gov bond disbursements soon and they don't want that kind of money to be taxed. As long as it fits the Asian situation bond yields will be good money, a lot more money than a sucker will get in the market.
When it comes down to it, the people will always shout, "Free Barabbas." They love Barabbas. He's one of them. He has the same dreams. He does what they wish they could do. That other guy is more removed, more inscrutable. He makes them think. "Crucify him."
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3730
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 00:21:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'w')orst case scenario
they liquidate all the assets of your country.


Good idea! Like China can purchase Alaska and Hawaii with all of its dollar reserves. Japan can buy all of America's Pacific possessions, California, Oregon and Washington with theirs.

America can sell itself off state by state.
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 00:28:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bewildebeest', 'S')o how far can the USD fall relative to other fiat currencies?

When would you consider it oversold?


well it's a piece of paper backed up by the promises of a terminally in debt country that shows no interest in correcting the situation. If it wasn't the world's choice of currency it would be an easy prediction to say the bottom is at it being worth nothing at all. Being that it's still important as the petrodollar it's any one's call


Agreed! As far as most countries go, every government runs a deficit. Yet only America also has a huge trade deficit and a huge personal savings deficit. At least those countries that make things can base their currency on the value of their goods. The US doesn't produce enough, at least for export, to cover the dollar.
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 01:40:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'T')he decline of the dollar won't fix itself. It is not a negative feedback loop, it is a realization on the part of the world that the US economy has some major liabilities, short-term, mid-term and long-term. We will get some boost to the economy from the feel good effect of getting out of Iraq, but all of our major domestic issues are major risk items for the economy within a decade. Devaluing the dollar to solve the trade deficit does not in fact change the underlying principles have have created that deficit. Trying to fix the trade deficit by devaluing the dollar at a time when wage growth is stagnant pulls on CPI. Consume spending is %70 of the American economy. Shave 5% off of that and you have a recession.

I see the dollar eventually (5 - 10 years out) being worth something around .5 euros, or alternatively the .0005 euros it depends on whether we address the foaming chest wounds or just sit there girgling out the words "I'm not a widow."


Exactly how will a weaker dollar help fix America's ever increasing trade deficit. Conventional theories don't apply to this situation. Those theories being that when a currency weakens its manufactured goods become cheaper and there is a rush to buy them.

Considering that the US has exported its factory base to China and elsewhere, what then does America have to sell? Even tourism is in a decline as people have returned to their homeland with horror stories of Gestapo like treatment at the borders.

The long awaited sell-off of the dollar has begun. Each day the euro sets a new record.
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 01:56:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
From July, 2004 to July, 2007, the dollar fell in value by 10%.

A few more of those and the trade picture will fix itself, thus strengthening the dollar.



Is hamburger flipping a tradeable item?

Seriously, though, has the 10% drop in the value of the dollar improved the net balance of trade in favor of the US? I don't think so. You've gotta have something to trade in the first place outside of raw materials. We might have a lot of them (ag products for instance) but that's no hallmark of a healthy economy. In fact, it's the hallmark of a banana republic minus the bananas.

If the 80 mark is breached ( btw, we have been in the 80's territory before during 2004) we have the pieces in place for a "run on the bank" as there is no downside resistance any more. The psychology of staying above 80 is HUGE! We might have the opportunity to test this theory as early as Sunday night. Stay tuned.


Very true. The dollar has been falling significantly since the euro became a cash currency in 2002. Since the euro's inception in 1999, it has gained 17 % on the dollar. From its low point of 2000-10-26 (0.8252 $), the euro has increase in value 68 %.

Can we show any proof of an increase in US exports to match the fall of the dollar? If there is some increase it is very small and would not even produce a nanodent in America's troubles.

This is just the relation between the euro and the dollar. The same situation is with every currency compared to the dollar. Even the Canadian dollar is approaching 1:1 parity. Who would have ever thought that?
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 02:06:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('chuck6877', 'T')he U.S. dollar has been in a descending parallel channel since 2002.


The exact moment the euro became a cash currency and in the minds of the world, the euro was truly real.
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 10:17:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', 'T')yler_JC,
Not to be rude, but do you understand what globalisation means relative to America's manufacturing of tradeable goods....and services? Have you missed the emasculation of America's manufacturing base subsequent to the mid 90's trade agreements? Are you like Tom Friedman, and believe the world is flat? Please elaborate on how a falling dollar magically makes America a manufacturing giant again, since it hasn't for the past fifteen years. Do you see anything negative relative to the American economy? I'm trying to plumb where you are coming from. You confuse me as to your economic worldview.


I understand his view, it's that if the US Dollar is worth little enough, eventually we'll all be happy to make Nike shoes for the rest of the world, and our $20/hour will actually be worth about 20 cents an hour.....

We inside the Empire will see foreign goods costing more and more in dollars, hell a good pair of Nike or New Balance shoes is over $100 now. But even the cheapies you find in PayLess Shoe Stores will be $100 and the real Nikes etc will be more like $300. At this point, theoretically you'll see entrepreneurs inside the US starting up making shoes, maybe starting out in garages at first and growing larger. Imagine the same thing with fabrics, toasters, etc. I am listening to my little "Grundig" FR200 which I love, right now - it was about $40 but if it's $400, I'm not going to buy one, I'm going to buy an American made rough equivalent even if it's clunkier, or even build something from an American kit (we're in a new golden age for US-produced and designed radio kits right now).

When shipping things all around the world for dirt cheap becomes no longer dirt cheap, we WILL be making our own shoes again...



Somehow I don't think $ devaluation is going to play out this way. At any rate there's going to be a shitload of pain given its descent, for a protracted period of time, before, if ever again, we see a semblance of the way it used to be in our heyday. On the other hand if consumerism dies in America--forever--because of $ devaluation then count me as a convert in wishing for its ultimate demise. Fuck the hamster wheel.


Things won't be so easy. To restart a factory will take money, real hard currency. Foreign countries will have to invest in the US as a means to fund the creation of industries again. The US is in debt to the world and it will be that world which will decide if and how they will restructure the US.

Some countries will enter the US and create slave shops and take advantage of America's misery.

It will be interesting to see if the US will be forced to break apart such that each state is an independent country or if regional nations form. Will the US be forced to sell off some territory to compensate for the loss of the value of the dollar to nations such as China and Japan in exchange for aid?
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby I_Like_Plants » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 14:22:52

I don't mean restarting whole factories though, I mean guys/gals starting up making shoes in their garages. Literally. High quality shoes do not take a lot of fancy equipment to make. You can make a lot more of them if you have fancy equipment, but you can make them with mostly hand labor and sell them and sell them directly. I'm really talking about from the ground-up here.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Tyler_JC » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 14:28:23

The Good News About The Weak Dollar

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The weak dollar is a source of humiliation, for a nation's self-esteem rests in part on the strength of its currency. It's also a potential economic problem, since a declining dollar makes the steady diet of imports on which Americans subsist more expensive and exerts upward pressure on interest rates. And yet there are substantial sectors of the vast U.S. economy—from giant companies like Coca-Cola to mom-and-pop restaurant operators in Miami—for which the weak dollar is most excellent news.
The rusted industrial regions of upstate New York that border Canada have little going for them economically. For the past few decades, they've lost industries and population to places with more-salubrious climates, like pretty much everywhere else. But the strong Canadian dollar is encouraging more cross-border shopping. Chuck Skelling, manager at Towne BMW in the Buffalo suburb of Williamsville, receives a few calls per day from status-conscious Torontonians inquiring about new Bimmers. Because Canadian car prices are based on old exchange rates, the same BMW 335 convertible that retails for $48,000 in the United States sells for the equivalent of $63,000 in Toronto.

The strong euro is making even the most expensive U.S. real-estate markets look reasonable. As a result, residents of Ireland, until recently one of the weakest economies in the developed world, are helping keep New York's condo market aloft. When he built the Centria, a 158-unit, 33-floor wedge across the street from Rockefeller Center, Jules Demchick, chairman of New York-based J.D. Carlisle Development Corp., focused his sales efforts in Dublin. "About 90 percent of the sales have been to Irish people," he said. "We didn't even market it in the U.S."
....
The money tourists spend helps put a dent in our chronic trade deficit. So do exports, which, thanks in part to the weak dollar, soared 11 percent between May 2006 and May 2007. For the first five months of 2007, the trade deficit actually fell 7 percent from 2006.


I don't believe I need to add anything.
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby firestarter » Sat 21 Jul 2007, 15:12:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '[')url=http://www.slate.com/id/2170745/fr/flyout]The Good News About The Weak Dollar[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The weak dollar is a source of humiliation, for a nation's self-esteem rests in part on the strength of its currency. It's also a potential economic problem, since a declining dollar makes the steady diet of imports on which Americans subsist more expensive and exerts upward pressure on interest rates. And yet there are substantial sectors of the vast U.S. economy—from giant companies like Coca-Cola to mom-and-pop restaurant operators in Miami—for which the weak dollar is most excellent news.
The rusted industrial regions of upstate New York that border Canada have little going for them economically. For the past few decades, they've lost industries and population to places with more-salubrious climates, like pretty much everywhere else. But the strong Canadian dollar is encouraging more cross-border shopping. Chuck Skelling, manager at Towne BMW in the Buffalo suburb of Williamsville, receives a few calls per day from status-conscious Torontonians inquiring about new Bimmers. Because Canadian car prices are based on old exchange rates, the same BMW 335 convertible that retails for $48,000 in the United States sells for the equivalent of $63,000 in Toronto.

The strong euro is making even the most expensive U.S. real-estate markets look reasonable. As a result, residents of Ireland, until recently one of the weakest economies in the developed world, are helping keep New York's condo market aloft. When he built the Centria, a 158-unit, 33-floor wedge across the street from Rockefeller Center, Jules Demchick, chairman of New York-based J.D. Carlisle Development Corp., focused his sales efforts in Dublin. "About 90 percent of the sales have been to Irish people," he said. "We didn't even market it in the U.S."
....
The money tourists spend helps put a dent in our chronic trade deficit. So do exports, which, thanks in part to the weak dollar, soared 11 percent between May 2006 and May 2007. For the first five months of 2007, the trade deficit actually fell 7 percent from 2006.


I don't believe I need to add anything.





Essentially he's saying that vis a vis dollar devaluation we can sell more goods here--goods that were in many instances manufactured abroad--and ratchet up the tourist/service industry (viz, low paying job industry). LOL!
User avatar
firestarter
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sun 19 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Euric » Sun 22 Jul 2007, 01:29:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '[')url=http://www.slate.com/id/2170745/fr/flyout]The Good News About The Weak Dollar[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The weak dollar is a source of humiliation, for a nation's self-esteem rests in part on the strength of its currency. It's also a potential economic problem, since a declining dollar makes the steady diet of imports on which Americans subsist more expensive and exerts upward pressure on interest rates. And yet there are substantial sectors of the vast U.S. economy—from giant companies like Coca-Cola to mom-and-pop restaurant operators in Miami—for which the weak dollar is most excellent news.
The rusted industrial regions of upstate New York that border Canada have little going for them economically. For the past few decades, they've lost industries and population to places with more-salubrious climates, like pretty much everywhere else. But the strong Canadian dollar is encouraging more cross-border shopping. Chuck Skelling, manager at Towne BMW in the Buffalo suburb of Williamsville, receives a few calls per day from status-conscious Torontonians inquiring about new Bimmers. Because Canadian car prices are based on old exchange rates, the same BMW 335 convertible that retails for $48,000 in the United States sells for the equivalent of $63,000 in Toronto.

The strong euro is making even the most expensive U.S. real-estate markets look reasonable. As a result, residents of Ireland, until recently one of the weakest economies in the developed world, are helping keep New York's condo market aloft. When he built the Centria, a 158-unit, 33-floor wedge across the street from Rockefeller Center, Jules Demchick, chairman of New York-based J.D. Carlisle Development Corp., focused his sales efforts in Dublin. "About 90 percent of the sales have been to Irish people," he said. "We didn't even market it in the U.S."
....
The money tourists spend helps put a dent in our chronic trade deficit. So do exports, which, thanks in part to the weak dollar, soared 11 percent between May 2006 and May 2007. For the first five months of 2007, the trade deficit actually fell 7 percent from 2006.


I don't believe I need to add anything.


I do though!

First of all, when an economy like that of the US becomes weak, there will always be predators looking for the spoils. Yes, they buy up property, but what do they do with it?

Do they move in? If they do, then that means they will eventually have to find a job and work to pay off the mortgage as well as provide income for not only the basic necessities of life, but the luxuries too. Which means taking jobs away from Americans who need them to finance their increasing debts.

Chances are though they aren't buying them to move in but to rent out. So, for a few hundred thousand euros in investment, they will have to charge the tenants a high rent in order to make up for the ever increasing weak dollar. This also means that the money they make will be exported from the US. The dollars paid in rent will be changed over to euros, which will fuel a continued euro rise.

The only people who will really benefit are those selling the properties.

As for Canada, yes that 48 000 $ car vs 63 000 $ sounds much cheaper, but then does the lower price include the import tax, the GST and other charges the Canadian consumer will have to pay before he can bring it back to Toronto? How long will it be before the local car prices catch up with the exchange rate and there is no more an advantage to go to New York to buy a car?

I'm sure those who inquire from the American dealers, don't think about factoring in all the hidden costs, now do they?

I wonder how much of the "American" exports were really goods produced in China and resold as American goods. It is important to tell us what was actually exported, just as it is important to give details about what types of jobs are created whenever such information is reported.
User avatar
Euric
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: US Dollar Plunging -below 81!!!

Postby Baldwin » Mon 23 Jul 2007, 01:23:13

The USD is now 80.03 That is right..... .03 from crossing into likely crash territory.

It will be one interesting week...Image
Only a city man would carry a bag of iron instead of a bag of rice.

-Ling Tan, from the movie Dragon Seed, 1944 (more wisdom from Turner Classic Movies)
User avatar
Baldwin
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon 05 Feb 2007, 04:00:00

Previous

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron