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THE North American Union/SPP Thread (merged)

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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby pea-jay » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 02:44:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'A')nyone down there in Texas seeing this 1/4 mile wide highway under construction?

They are doing a lot of road construction in the Twin Cities area, and some in Iowa (I can't remember if it was north or south of Des Moines)


Havent seen it personally, but via the miracle of web travel, here it is.
Image

Call me skeptical but this sure doesnt look like the quarter mile monster folks got themselves all worked up about.

On the other hand, this road has opened up a lot of new realestate for strip malls, cookie cutter housing and the requisite megachurch.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby pea-jay » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 03:03:55

Stop the SPP? Worry about it? Why bother. It isnt a treaty, it carries no weight of law and doesnt imply the construction of anything or the removal of national sovereignty.

For once the media ignorance of the subject matter is justified.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby gw » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 03:19:52

The French (and Dutch) succeeded in stopping the proposed EU constitution, so there is reason to think people can put a stop to the SPP as well.

Here is a petition:
Petition to Stop the SPP and Deep Integration

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'A CALL TO SUSPEND THE SECURITY AND PROSPERITY PARTNERSHIP OF NORTH AMERICA (SPP) ON CONTINENTAL INTEGRATION

PETITION TO THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA

We, the Undersigned Citizens of Canada, draw attention to the House of the following:

WHEREAS, the implementation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), further advances NAFTA’s goal of continental economic integration by pushing Canada towards establishing common policies with the United States and Mexico in key areas such as security, energy, and food and health standards, while shrinking the range of choices open to Canadian policy makers;

WHEREAS, the SPP encompasses over 300 wide-ranging initiatives, many of which reduce protection in areas such as pesticide use, food safety, air safety, and the environment to the lowest common denominator, as well as securing even greater U.S. control over Canadian resources and national standards, including energy and water;

WHEREAS, the SPP also seeks to incrementally merge our security policies and practices with those of the United States, and include measures such as a common security perimeter, with fully yielded control to the Bush administration over defence, intelligence, immigration, and refugee policies, including sharing a vast amount of personal information with the US government;

WHEREAS, under the SPP, Canada will possess less and less ability to adopt autonomous and sustainable economic, social, cultural, and environmental policies, including public programs like universal healthcare and public education;

WHEREAS, the SPP has been proceeding away from public scrutiny, with no democratic mandate from the Canadian, American, and Mexican people;

WHEREAS, the Parliament of Canada has not been allowed to review, debate, or vote on a process that will fundamentally alter the fabric of our society and challenge our existence as a sovereign nation;

THEREFORE, your petitioners call upon the Government of Canada to stop further implementation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) with the United States and Mexico until there is a democratic mandate from the people of Canada, Parliamentary oversight, and consideration of its profound consequences on Canada’s existence as a sovereign nation and its ability to adopt autonomous and sustainable economic, social, and environmental policies, and urge the Government of Canada to conduct a transparent and accountable public debate of the SPP process, involving meaningful public consultations with civil society and a full legislative review, including the work, recommendations, and reports of all SPP working groups, and a full debate and a vote in Parliament.

Name Signature Address Postal Code

')
Print out a few copies, collect signatures and send it to:

Peter Julian MP for Burnaby-New Westminster
Room 178, Confederation Building
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6

Here is a US version to send to your Representative in the House:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Dear Honorable Representative,

The implementation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), further advances NAFTA’s goal of continental economic integration by pushing United States towards establishing common policies with Canada and Mexico in key areas such as security, energy, and food and health standards, while shrinking the range of choices open to American policy makers.

The SPP encompasses over 300 wide-ranging initiatives, many of which reduce protection in areas such as pesticide use, food safety, air safety, and the environment to the lowest common denominator.

The SPP also seeks to incrementally merge our security policies and practices with those of Canada and Mexico, and include measures such as a common security perimeter, with fully yielded control to the Bush administration over defense, intelligence, immigration, and refugee policies, including sharing a vast amount of personal information with the governments of Canada and Mexico.

Under the SPP, United States will possess less and less ability to adopt autonomous and sustainable economic, social, cultural, and environmental policies, including public programs like healthcare and public education.

The SPP has been proceeding away from public scrutiny, with no democratic mandate from the Canadian, American, and Mexican people.

The United States Congress has not been allowed to review, debate, or vote on a process that will fundamentally alter the fabric of our society and challenge our existence as a sovereign nation.

I am therefore requesting that you take action to stop further implementation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) with Canada and Mexico until there is a democratic mandate from the people of United States, Congressional oversight, and consideration of its profound consequences on United States’s existence as a sovereign nation and its ability to adopt autonomous and sustainable economic, social, and environmental policies, and urge Congress to conduct a transparent and accountable public debate of the SPP process, involving meaningful public consultations with civil society and a full legislative review, including the work, recommendations, and reports of all SPP working groups, and a full debate and a vote in Congress.

Sincerely,

Your Name
City, State
')
Use the following link to contact your representative in the House.
Contact your Representative
Last edited by gw on Wed 18 Jul 2007, 20:05:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 07:53:48

Tri-National Advocacy for Efficient, Secure and Environmentally Conscious Trade & Transportation For more than 13 years NASCO and its members have stood at the forefront of driving public and private sectors to unite to address strategically critical national and international trade, transportation, security and environmental issues. … entire article at: http://www.nascocorridor.com/

NASCO Spaning 2,480 miles through Canada , the central U.S. and deep into Mexico,_ the NASCO trade corridor is a multimodal transportation network that connects 71 million people and supports $1 trillion in total commerce between the three nations. [big ole ad for on the first pg Intra America Real Estate Group]
Trans-Texas Corridor of the North American Union ... entire article at: http://sixthcolumn.blogspot.com/2006/06 ... rican.html

"Check out this WND report by Jerome Corsi that describes the route for the 12-lane highway that is a part of the North American Union." … The idea is to extend the rebuilt I-35 NAFTA super-corridor highway all the way from Laredo, Texas, to Canada, with extensions in Canada to be built out to Montreal in the east and Vancouver in the west. In Mexico, the super-corridor will connect via Mexican railroads with the port at Lazaro Cardenas. … entire article at: http://www.inboundlogistics.com/digital ... ital06.pdf
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby TheTurtle » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 08:29:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('savethehumans', 'C')an someone post a link to that map of the proposed superhighway? It doesn't enlarge here, so I want to go to the source and get an enlargement.


THIS looks like the original source.
But the jpeg doesn't seem to be any larger there than here.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 11:56:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'A')nyone down there in Texas seeing this 1/4 mile wide highway under construction?

They are doing a lot of road construction in the Twin Cities area, and some in Iowa (I can't remember if it was north or south of Des Moines)


Havent seen it personally, but via the miracle of web travel, here it is.
Image

Call me skeptical but this sure doesnt look like the quarter mile monster folks got themselves all worked up about.

On the other hand, this road has opened up a lot of new realestate for strip malls, cookie cutter housing and the requisite megachurch.

Hmm, sure that's it? I remember it being quoted many times about how this thing was 4 football fields wide with pipelines and rail, etc...
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby wxman » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 12:09:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'H')mm, sure that's it? I remember it being quoted many times about how this thing was 4 football fields wide with pipelines and rail, etc...


Another one of the paranoid conspiracy theories floating around the internet. The only highways approaching those sizes are very short stretches in high-density areas. To think that they are building something of that size from Mexico to Canada is pure and utter paranoid fantasy.

The Minneapolis construction is long overdue, especially the Crosstown (62) and I35 area. I was reading yesterday that they are trying to find a way from 169 to 212 because of the expanding SW metro. 41 into or near Chaska is the best route, but it isn't on the schedule for 20 years. But, yeah, the federal government is going to build a monster superhighway across the country :roll:
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 12:40:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'O')n the other hand, this road has opened up a lot of new realestate for strip malls, cookie cutter housing and the requisite megachurch.

Hmm, sure that's it? I remember it being quoted many times about how this thing was 4 football fields wide with pipelines and rail, etc...


As I mentioned earlier, this is the precursor to the system, in which I mean that the automated tolling systems and general routing of the highway is approximately what you see here with TX-130.

Here is a rendering of what the completed highway will look like:
Image

Image

Here is the updated corridor alternative, as of 04/2006:
Image

...and one showing a loop around Dallas/Fort Worth:
Image

(Note: the above disclaimer, while attempting to mitigate criticism about any routing changes, is generally accepted as the routing of the corridor.)

And, finally, here's a billboard hawking the whole thing:
Image
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 13:05:06

Hey that guy looks like Wilford Brimley :lol:

Makes sense though to do it in phases, that way they can show an initial phase picture and say it's just another highway, no big deal.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 13:51:42

There is a fair chance the government of Mexico will collapse now that Cantarell has peaked and Mexican oil production has begun a rapid decline.

The US should be planning how to respond and possibly protect itself from floods of illegal immigrants if the Mexican state implodes, not how to more fully integrate with a potential disaster on the southern border. 8)
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 13:55:35

Agghhhhh! Emerson...that looks horrible.


Its got to be the fabled highway to hell!!!


"I'm on the highway to hell
Highway to hell
I'm on the highway to hell
Highway to hell

No stop signs, speedin' limit
Nobody's gonna slow me down
Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Nobody's gonna mess me 'round
Hey Satan! Paid my dues.
Playin' in a rockin' band
Hey Mama! Look at me
I'm on my way to the promise land

I'm on the highway to hell
Highway to hell
I'm on the highway to hell
Highway to hell

Dont stop me!

Iau!Iau!yeah"
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 14:23:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')gghhhhh! Emerson...that looks horrible.


Agreed, the only component I care for is both the dual-tracked freight and passenger rail; both could be a boon to the state (and region's) economy, as well as having the added benefit of negating the necessity of the added truckway/roadway portions of the TTC. 8)
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 14:57:41

The rail would be very nice, but they seem to have started to build more highway and not the railway.

I'm a huge rail supporter, but I think we'll have to see gas go to $7 at the pump before the priorities switch around and the railroads and light rail systems start getting built and a hold gets put on building more super-highways.

I wouldn't mind a high speed rail connection and new freight connections from Mexico to the US to Canada. You can check everybody's ID when they get on a train, and you can ID and check and track every single freight car to its destination.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby gw » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 16:26:30

Canadians are very concerned about losing their sovereignty and having their resources plundered by the US, and all you guys can talk about is a stupid highway.

This is another example of how Americans pretend to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that the American way of life is based on pillage and plunder.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 16:55:15

GW, please reconsider your statement that "This is another example of how Americans pretend ..."

Not all Americans! I care very much about America losing Its sovereignty, just as you feel about your country. I think that our current administration has lost its collective mind, and I, for one, am horrified about our government's actions!!!
We have absolutely NO business trying to mind and control every other country/culture on the planet.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 22:12:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gw', 'C')anadians are very concerned about losing their sovereignty and having their resources plundered by the US, and all you guys can talk about is a stupid highway.

This is another example of how Americans pretend to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that the American way of life is based on pillage and plunder.



If an American pays a Canadian $76 for a barrel of oil that he spent about $40 to dig and refine from Alberta tar sand, do you consider that pillage and plunder? If so, who is pillaging and plundering whom? :P
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 22:31:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gw', 'C')anadians are very concerned about losing their sovereignty and having their resources plundered by the US, and all you guys can talk about is a stupid highway.

This is another example of how Americans pretend to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that the American way of life is based on pillage and plunder.



The only difference between us and the Canadians is that we have a use for your resource, you don't and so you sell it to us. Big deal. We also buy your lumber and I believe a number of our makes of cars are made in Onterio. Do you like your socialized health care? It is paid for because we buy your stuff and your government can then tax the sale.

Do you really think Canada would be in a better strategic or economic position if it were not next to the United States?
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby MalcolmV » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 23:45:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'W')e also buy your lumber


And you're going to pay us the 5 billion dollars you owe us for it right?
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby Mircea » Thu 19 Jul 2007, 02:01:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gw', 'C')anadians are very concerned about losing their sovereignty and having their resources plundered by the US, and all you guys can talk about is a stupid highway.


And they can't even get it right. Presently, Mexican "truck drivers" bring their loads across the border and drop the trailer in a yard. An "I"-merican truck driver picks up the trailer and takes it on to where ever it's going.

The new corridor is a limited access highway. It will allow Mexican "truck drivers" to take their loads to "inland ports," with the 3 initial ports being San Antonio, Kansas City and Denver. An inland port is planned for Canada, and a cross corridor and spurs are also planned, with more inland ports, allowing the Mexicans to go about anyhwhere. Wal-Mart is one of the many backers of this plan.

A load from Dallas to Kansas City would typically cost about $1,800, and an "I"-merican truck driver would typically get 20% to 25% of that if working for a cartage company. An independent driver would get significantly less, being paid by the mile, and of course, a Mexican would get way less than that. Obviously a lot of "I"-merican drivers will lose their jobs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is another example of how Americans pretend to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that the American way of life is based on pillage and plunder.


Well, c'mon, they're proud of that. Can a Canadian say, "Hey, my government deprived the life or liberty of 4 people so I could have all this stuff," well no, of course not.

I mean, seriously, the US assassinated a head of state for merely thinking about taxing a US corporation that wasn't paying any taxes, when did Canada ever display such derring-do?

After all, "I"-mericans are christians. It quite clearly says (somewhere) in the bible, "Blessed be those who assassinate heads of state for nationalizing industries," and (somewhere) it says, "Blessed are the Death Squads, for they shall bring harmony and peace through oppression, devastation and superior US firepower."

Don't worry, what goes around comes back around, and the US will reap the horrors it has sown, we'll see how tough they are then.
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Re: How to stop the SPP?

Unread postby pea-jay » Thu 19 Jul 2007, 06:11:38

Okay the Trans Texas Cooridor does look pretty heinous at "build out"

http://www.corridorwatch.org/ttc/ttc35/ ... awings.pdf

Still with the price tag estimated at $745 Billion dollars (with a "B" mind you) even the best public private partnership is going to be unable to cough that up. Remember the Big Dig in boston cost only ! 12 billion. and that was the "most expensive public works project yet. California is toying with highspeed proposal that will cost at most 30billion. Heck we havent even spent that much fightin' turrists in the I-rack and that is a pricey war.

Three quarters of a trillion on this...come on. Find something else to worry about. Two decades from now, squatters at TxDoT building will discover these "plans" and feel lucky theyve got kindling for their fire to keep warm with. I've worked transportation planning and believe me, our shelves are littered with road plans out the wazoo.

Worry about something else.
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