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The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby mkwin » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 08:16:52

I was hoping some of you guys could help me out. When explaining peak oil to people I usually get asked the question why the official peak forecasts (USGS/EIA/IEA) are far away. I talk about the paper barrels etc, but I could do with a definitive list of weaknesses in their assumptions.

Could people in the know list the reasons or weaknesses in their assumptions in this thread? Also, any historical errors from the USGS would be appreciated.
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 08:40:04

No problem. Just point out that these agencies rely on foreign governments to give them estimates of their reserves, and there is no audit procedure. They have to take their word for it.

So in the case of Saudi, for example, who claim that they have 245 gb of reserves, we have to trust them. No one is allowed in to check.

So we have built the whole system, economy and everything, on the assurances of a bunch of rug traders that they have enough supply.
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 10:04:22

You might also point out that not only do we have to take their word for it, but that all the nations of OPEC "mysteriously" doubled their reserves in the 80's after OPEC moved to a reserve-based quota system.

There has been some news recently out of Kuwait about the size of their reserves being about half of what is claimed. One of the petroleum magazines printed something last year to that effect. Recently, Kuwait's parliament has been arguing about their right to know if this is true or not.
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby kjmclark » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 10:35:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'T')here has been some news recently out of Kuwait about the size of their reserves being about half of what is claimed. One of the petroleum magazines printed something last year to that effect. Recently, Kuwait's parliament has been arguing about their right to know if this is true or not.


It was Petroleum Intelligence Weekly in January 2006. You can find two Energy Bulletin postings about it here and here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'S')o we have built the whole system, economy and everything, on the assurances of a bunch of rug traders that they have enough supply.


"Rug traders" bwaahaahaa! :lol:
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 11:01:10

Thanks, kjm! I thought it was PIW, but didn't have time here at work to look anything up.
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby Micki » Tue 17 Jul 2007, 21:17:08

These agencies don't seem to bother thinking ab outr net-energy out.
They work with the assumption that as long as there is a large QUANTITY of oil, we are allright.

Secondly the articles I've seen from/about these agencies don't seem to have realistic depletion rates/production decline for matured wells/fields.
They work on some sort of theoretical % decline in production rather than looking at what is happening to fields like Cantarell and North Sea.
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby TonyPrep » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 02:23:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'W')hen explaining peak oil to people I usually get asked the question why the official peak forecasts (USGS/EIA/IEA) are far away.
I'm not sure that's true of the IEA, any more. At least they seem to be coming to a realisation that just because it may be technically possible to get at reserves and produce them, that doesn't mean it will happen in a timely fashion. They see a real supply problem within 5 years.

The actual production figures from the EIA show a distinct plateau and past peaks in both conventional crude and all liquids. So, according to EIA figures, the peak is already here (until the figures show otherwise).
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Re: The Late Peak Oil Forecasts

Unread postby Doly » Wed 18 Jul 2007, 08:51:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'W')hen explaining peak oil to people I usually get asked the question why the official peak forecasts (USGS/EIA/IEA) are far away.


The only good explanation is that they are deliberately distorting the truth, because they have access to decent data, if they just wanted to use it. And the reason they distort the truth is because they've been told to do so (after all, they're government agencies). I know this sounds like what every conspiracy theorist says. This is an extraordinary claim, and you should ask for extraordinary evidence to support it. Unfortunately, in this case, the extraordinary evidence is easy to find. There are many petroleum geologists (Colin Campbell, Laherre, Deffeyes and others) disputing these forecasts, and you should study their arguments.
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