[I_Like_Plants]

OK I have developed a major Django Reinhardt obsession and this has become a strong interest in Gypsies in general. What amazing people!

We are: Materialistic - $100k in the bank makes you Good, more is better

They are: Amaterialistic - $100K in the bank assuming they bother to amass it, is distributed amonst the tribe ASAP.

We are: Work-worshippers, workaholics
They are: Not.

We are: Literate. Nothing exists for us unless encoded into the written wrod, and better yet, mathematical equations.

They are: Up until very recently, pretty much 100% illiterate! Django Reinhardt learned to sign his name, painstakingly, as an adult.

We are: attached to land and territory
They are: Up until very recently if at all, not. Groups like Django's would literally wander all over Europe and think nothing of it.

We are: Warlike
They are: Not - never has there been a Gypsy war

We are: Posession-oriented - a house full of crap = happiness and everyone of us knows it.
They are: Not at all. Look especially at photos of the older type horse-drawn caravans. Personal posessions were at an absolute minimum.

We are oriented towards creating Great Paintings and statues and monuments.
They are not artists to any degree, other than in making jewelry, their forte' was always music, which leaves no trace.

I don't know if John Zerzan has thought about this group much, but to a great extent they may be some of the very few last free human beings.

So, let's discuss this! Post your Gypsy-hate stories here!

[paimei01]

Here in Romania we have lots of gypsies, and many kinds of them.
There are really poor gypsies in villages, some make pots for a living, and travel around selling them, some collect scrap iron, some play music for weddings and parties
There are the gypsies in the cities , some are poor - is hard for them to get jobs because they don't go to school and nobody trusts them, they steal and do all kinds of illegal stuff, and some of them are rich.
Very few have done high school, most of them do very little school, there are among them some who went to college and got into our parliament
Their music is called "manele" many people like it , many people do not, it's a 'war" between people who like rock and people who like manele
There is some racism going on, but I try not to be racist and look at every new person I encounter with no preconceptions.

They like money , I don't know if they share it between themselves, and I don't know much about their organization, I know that if one of them does something wrong they judge him themselves if they can

What I like about them is that they do not integrate into our society , they can start a camp fire in the middle of the street as the most normal thing in the world to do. They do not care about the age for marriage, it's very usual for them to marry their children at age 12 or 14, even if it's illegal now. Also they have lots of kids, does not matter if they are poor
They know what things are of value in life - family first, they don't know what is that a "career" or stuff like that. Of course : if they can get rich they will.
Compared to them we are slaves to our own creation, they just use whatever is around, they don't care.
They get bad publicity because many of them do illegal stuff, but even so I admire them for their simple way of life , I think that in case of peak oil they will surely survive

[virgincrude]

I Like Plants, if you want to know more, try Bury Me Standing, by Isabel Fonseca probably the best book written about Gypsies so far.

We all like Gypsies. Until they rob us, steal our chickens, or sell us dodgy gear, its a great romance we have. They have the most 'alternative' mind set you'll ever encounter; completely unpredictable.

If you're into Django, you must be one step away from Flamenco which was also developed by Gypsies, the Spanish kind. There are several different strands of Gypsy culture, probably originating from the Indo-Asian tribes they originate from. Here in Spain, our autoctonous Gyspies share only their looks with those of Rumania. Despite the belief in a Gyspy language, as Fonseca points out in her book, even if a French Gypsy were to address a Rumanian or Chechen Gyspy in Romansh, they would swear they didn't understand one another!

I did a fair bit of research into Gyspy culture for my book on Flamenco music, take a look at Amazon.com- Flamenco, All You Wanted To Know

[Aaron]

http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/theriches/

[I_Like_Plants]

My dad was a major flamenco nut, and we grew up listening to flamenco. Dad was known for dancing at Olvera street, he was that big on Flamenco dancing! Not professionally, but when some lithe smallish WASP guy jumps up and dances, that's not something you see every day.

Yeah the gypsies steal stuff. So will your best friend, your government, your momma, etc. Oh and your best friend etc will also lie to you and tell you they're on your side first too.

Yes there are different groups among gypsies. And language barriers etc.

But this fascinates me: that they're the one group that is opposite to us in fundamental ways. Very very fundamental ways. You could never accuse a Chinese of being Judeo-Christian and yet they seem to pretty much agree that more "stuff" is good, that land is worth spilling blood for, etc. Most every group we Westerns have come across that didn't think like us, has been pretty easy to force to come around to our way of thinking. But not the Gypsies.

[virgincrude]

"Yeah the gypsies steal stuff. So will your best friend, your government, your momma, etc. Oh and your best friend etc will also lie to you and tell you they're on your side first too."

Funny thing though, I never had a best friend who stole MY stuff. I wonder what kind of best friend or momma you had/have? Sounds pretty dire.

Gypsies certainly appear to be far less materialistic than non-Gypsies, they only use stuff for as long as it can benefit them, and will just as easily do without it if it goes. In cardboard/wooden/corrugated iron Gypsy shacks you'll find wide screen plasma tvs, huge boom boxes, besides the amount of gold any Gypsy likes to sport, and the big Mercedes/BMW cars.

A couple of years ago, one of the finest Gyspy Flamenco dancers Farruquito, driving a BMW without a licence, hit and killed a fellow crossing the road. Farruquito sped off into the night, leaving the man to die. Not assisting someone you've just run down is a crime in itself here. During the time the police were trying to trace the driver, Farruquito was heard talking to a relative about the incident through police wire tapping of phones in connection with a drug operation they were tracking. When Farruquito was taken in for questioning, he denied everything, and said his younger brother was driving. His younger brother was underage at the time. After questioning them both, eventually Farruquito broke down and he is now serving a ridiculously short prison term, having pleaded against the orginal jail term, arguing that he is the sole bread winner, head of family etc.

He incriminated his own younger brother in a serious crime. All the while this was going on, Farruquito was allowed to tour the US. He is one of a long line of Gypsy dancers, mostly going by the name Farruquito. You can see him dancing as a ten-year old with his grandfather, el Farruco, on the "Flamenco" video (Saura.) His father died young, and his grandfather practically brought him up. His grandfather it is rumoured, killed another Gypsy in a knife fight. Some sort of honour killing.

Recently, a Gypsy couple in Seville were found guilty of murder, after having shot a man in the head and body in full view of passers by. The man was driving along when the Gypsy couple's young daughter ran into the road, he struck her a glancing blow. The father, from who knows where, whipped out his illegal Kruger and shot the man first in the head, and then when his wife helpfully opened the car door and the man fell out, another 8 times, pausing to re-load. Meanwhile, their daughter got up and went sobbing to the mother's side.

During the trial, they insisted the mother had done nothing wrong, had feinted, and been distraught to see their daughter lying in a pool of blood having been run down (the daughter was unharmed and not bleeding). They tried to get the mother off the hook. But the jury found the eye-witness evidence supporting the story that the mother had not only opened the door to assist her husband's murderous assault, but screamed insults and encouraged her husband to continue shooting, more persuasuve.

Of course, in the eyes of all the Gyspies involved in these two incidents, they have been the victims of the 'payo's' injustice, we can never understand their honour-bound system and way of life ....

Here in Spain Gyspies are sporadically 'integrated'. I sit with them on the bus, exchange inannities while waiting in the doctor's surgery, etc. There is no substitute nor emulation possible of a Gypsy musician. It's undeniable they have something indefinable when it comes to music and dance, and for this reason alone, I hope they don't ever fully integrate and become 'like us'. But the degree to which we romanticise Gyspy culture is indicative of our inability to understand it. Gypsies, more aware of this inability than us, take advantage of it all the time. And who can blame them?

At the local supermarket, wherever a group of Gypsies are lining up at the cash register, an armed security guard will appear. The stereotypes and fear of them is deeply ingrained. Once, while paying at Toy'sRUs, I noticed a famous Gypsy flamenco guitarist at the next register, buying stacks of toys. Tomatito is gorgeous to look at: a mane of thick curled hair, green eyes in olive skin, and an attractive humility despite being considered one of the world's top ten guitarists. When it came time to pay, he whipped out a huge wad of Euro notes from beneath his black full length leather coat.

Since you're into Django, check out Jeronimo here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V3pggdG40Y

[Pretorian]

It is clear that ILP has never met a jypsy in his life.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I')t is clear that ILP has never met a jypsy in his life.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', '
')
A couple of years ago, one of the finest Gyspy Flamenco dancers Farruquito, driving a BMW without a licence, hit and killed a fellow crossing the road. Farruquito sped off into the night, leaving the man to die. Not assisting someone you've just run down is a crime in itself here. During the time the police were trying to trace the driver, Farruquito was heard talking to a relative about the incident through police wire tapping of phones in connection with a drug operation they were tracking. When Farruquito was taken in for questioning, he denied everything, and said his younger brother was driving. His younger brother was underage at the time. After questioning them both, eventually Farruquito broke down and he is now serving a ridiculously short prison term, having pleaded against the orginal jail term, arguing that he is the sole bread winner, head of family etc.

He incriminated his own younger brother in a serious crime......

[I_Like_Plants]

Green eyes and olive skin describes me.

Let's see .... known contacts with Gypsies...

Once my mom was selling at the pearl city swapmeet, trying to sell some Indian-made junk jewelry and stuff, this little old short lady came up and smiled at me, and I thought nothing of it, we decided later that the missing rings had been taken by this "Gypsy" lady. There are gypsies in Hawaii by the way. I thought this was kind of interesting - this lady had gotten one over on Mom, points for her!

When I was back in Hawaii in 2003, I was showing some scrimshaws I'd done to a store owner in Haleiwa. Some short, I thought some of the local mongrel-mix, people came in, and created a disturbance, and apparently grabbed my best showoff piece, and I was convinced it was the white storekeeper who was the scammer, being familiar with the Haight-Ashbury ethics of Haleiwa.... well, I think the little brown folks got it, and decided that they'd have a hard time making a 2nd one once they'd sold the first, and if some kid of theirs or someone of their number got inspired by the workmanship and became a good scrimshander, that's good too.

A surplus electronics dealer I know in Arizona deals with some Gypsies who come by with stuff at times, and I was there one of the times. I bought a very pretty MMIC module from the Gypies, and I was cautioned by the dealer, "Don't deal with those Gypsies". I do know know if the Gypsies are crooks, I know for a fact the dealer is.

As for shooting the guy who hit the Gypsy's kid, well, anyone who climbs out of their metal shell and walks a bit knows there are careless drivers and even malicious drivers. Did the car swerve toward the kid? It's not unknown, seen it done by whites towards whites, even kids, in the US. You were not there and neither was I, but as a US person, I can say that story does not shock me.