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THE International Energy Agency (IEA) Thread pt 1 (merged) A

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: IEA warns of 'supply crunch', demand zooms

Unread postby Eli » Tue 10 Jul 2007, 13:23:30

This Article from the front page captures what is going on perfectly. Yeah, and it means PO is probably already upon us.


This part of the IEA quote used in the piece.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he concept of peak oil production and its timing are emotive subjects which raise intense debate. Much rests on the definition of which segment of global oil production is deemed to be at or approaching peak. Certainly our forecast suggests that the non-OPEC, conventional crude component of global production appears, for now, to have reached an effective plateau, rather than a peak...


They don't want to use the term PO because it is too emotional. They then go on to explain how tar sands and deep water are now counted as unconventional oil and in the future they will likely be counted as conventional petroleum.

They really are doing their level best to say we are in trouble without saying we are in trouble.
Last edited by Eli on Tue 10 Jul 2007, 13:40:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IEA warns of 'supply crunch', demand zooms

Unread postby PeakingAroundtheCorner » Tue 10 Jul 2007, 13:31:20

"They really are doing their level best to say we are in trouble without saying we are in trouble."

We are SOOOOOO in trouble. Right now.
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Re: IEA says "supply crunch by 2012"

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Tue 10 Jul 2007, 18:02:47

There's that 2012 yet again!

{threads merged by Bas}
THE FUTURE IS HISTORY!
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Re: IEA warns of 'supply crunch', demand zooms

Unread postby JPL » Tue 10 Jul 2007, 19:14:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')
Hi Bas

I think the IEA are currently trying to square an impossible circle. On the one hand they have a responsibility to warn the OECD of an impending crisis, on the other they cannot shout the words PEAK OIL too early, else they loose credability - and that would not help things either, if they are too early. Don't kid yourself that they are not aware of the potential gravity of the situation.

So I think they have taken a very zen-like attitude, which is to point at 'the beast' without speaking it's name out loud.

Others within the organisation have spoken louder, which is something I introduced on this thread IEA admits to peak?

The dragon will roar soon-enough.

JPL


thanks for that, and you're probably right too. And I really do need that holiday as I notice that the issues of PO and also GW are starting to frustrate me again as you can see in my last post; time for me to take some distance and put it in perspective. Thanks JPL.


Hi Bas

Just a suggestion - I don't know your situation but this has always worked for me in the past.

When you are feeling down, and pissed off, do this: Put a couple of thousand dollars in your inside pocket and buy a one-way ticket to somewhere remote in Africa, India or S. America. Then travel where the wind takes you until the money runs out. En-route, talk to everyone you meet and learn about their way of life & the things that they value, the things that piss them off, and how they think about things.

Travel as far and wide as you can - keep moving, keep learning. When your money runs out, come back.

The world will change whilst you are away, I guarentee this, even if nothing has happened back-home, you will find that it has changed - possibly beyond all recognition (grin).

JP
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Re: IEA warns of 'supply crunch', demand zooms

Unread postby fluffy » Wed 11 Jul 2007, 05:40:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'f')luffy, I think you have to take a look again at your list.

Iraq first of all is in very bad shape and going to get worse as far as production goes. Every goal the US has set for the current Iraqi government during the surge have not been met. The republicans are abandoning Iraq, the only person willing to fight it out their is Bill Kristol the neocon chicken hawk reporter. I think we need to get him some body armorer and m-16 stat so he can show us how to win this war.

And all the projects in the deep water gulf are continuing to run into problems with ever increasing production costs.

And as far as China goes until proven otherwise everything that comes out of there is worth as much as a tube of tainted toothpaste.


I was looking at the medium term here; I don't see much if any increase in world production from current levels, but some of the things I mentioned may happen at some point in the next decade. At some point, for instance, the US will withdraw from Iraq and the place *may* settle down after that.
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IEA OMR for July

Unread postby TonyPrep » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 07:32:02

The summary of the latest monthly OMR is here. I've never seen the summary not give a figure for oil supply. Does anyone have access to the full report, which should show this figure?

Of course this can't be true but I'm wondering whether the supply figure is so bad that they don't want to report it. The graph for the second quarter (on the same page) shows a sharp reduction is supply, though this was also true of the second quarter last year (but not the previous year).
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Gvil » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 09:07:53

tshtf!
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Zardoz » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 09:56:13

It always takes them three to four weeks after the end of a quarter to update this chart, so it's not surprising that it hasn't been done yet. I wouldn't expect it to show the 2Q2007 figure for at least another week.

However, as you said, Tony, they are showing it on the page you linked to, and it looks scary as hell:

Image

That's about 84.8, which is where we were in the second quarter of both 2005 and 2006 . Once again, we get another piece of info reinforcing our belief that we're on the "undulating plateau".

How the hell are we going to meet that 2008 demand figure? 90 MBPD by 4Q2008? Not a chance!
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 11:56:09

IEA Sees Oil-Refining Flexibility From 2008 Onwards (Update1)
By Stephen Voss Last Updated: July 13, 2007
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- The International Energy Agency, an adviser to 26 oil-consuming nations, said refinery upgrades next year will boost the potential to process heavier crude grades, easing market tightness and possibly lowering prices.
During the next five years, investment in equipment will mean refiners will be better able to turn increasing quantities of heavy crude and fuel oils into lighter products such as gasoline, the IEA said in its monthly Oil Market Report today. Global oil demand will jump 2.5 percent next year to 88.21 million barrels a day, it said.
… World oil demand will rise 1.8 percent this year. Demand next year will be led by accelerating consumption growth in China and the Middle East. Oil use in Africa in 2008 will grow at twice the pace of the industrialized nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, IEA estimates show. … Excluding Angola and Iraq, which aren't bound to OPEC production limits, OPEC crude output was 26.63 million barrels of oil a day in June, the IEA estimated, up from 26.61 million barrels a day in May.
…On an annual basis, the IEA estimates demand for crude from all 12 OPEC members to be between 31.1 million and 31.7 million barrels a day this year and between 31.7 million and 32.3 million barrels a day in 2008. The agency doesn't directly forecast OPEC production. Estimates at the lower ends of those ranges reflect the IEA's doubts that supply from some OPEC nations, namely Iraq, Nigeria, Venezuela and Indonesia, can be fully relied upon.
… Even so, OPEC's overall oil production capacity, including crude and other forms of lighter oil, will rise about 1 million barrels a day next year to 35.4 million barrels a day. Non-OPEC oil supply is also expected to rise 1 million barrels a day next year, to 51 million barrels a day.
Bloomberg
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Eli » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 12:08:56

Wow! what a great snapshot of how screwed we are.

There is no way to make it from the 84.5 now, to the 88.2 that the IEA is calling for next year. Their own chart doesn't even go past 86.

The IEA is letting everyone know the Emperor has no clothes.
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby sjn » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 13:31:28

It is strange how IEA (currently) shows a sharper, higher, later peak than EIA. They do at least seem to be showing a clear production peak now though, even while they talk of higher demand, which is all the MSM ever seems to pick up on.
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby TonyPrep » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 18:08:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'I')t always takes them three to four weeks after the end of a quarter to update this chart, so it's not surprising that it hasn't been done yet. I wouldn't expect it to show the 2Q2007 figure for at least another week.
I'd agree except that the chart was updated the same day the latest monthly OMR came out. The previous chart also showed their forecasts for the rest of 2007 (and perhaps into 2008). So I'd imagine that a deliberate updating of the graphic would include the latest data from this OMR.

Tony
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Zardoz » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 18:19:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '.')..OPEC's overall oil production capacity, including crude and other forms of lighter oil, will (NOT) rise about 1 million barrels a day next year to 35.4 million barrels a day. Non-OPEC oil supply is also expected to rise (BUT WILL ACTUALLY DECLINE BY AT LEAST) 1 million barrels a day next year, to (SOMETHING WAY LESS THAN) 51 million barrels a day.

{Edited for accuracy to maintain the integrity of the forums...}
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Bas » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 19:20:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '.')..OPEC's overall oil production capacity, including crude and other forms of lighter oil, will (NOT) rise about 1 million barrels a day next year to 35.4 million barrels a day. Non-OPEC oil supply is also expected to rise (BUT WILL ACTUALLY DECLINE BY AT LEAST) 1 million barrels a day next year, to (SOMETHING WAY LESS THAN) 51 million barrels a day.

{Edited for accuracy to maintain the integrity of the forums...}


I wonder if the IEA believes those claims of increased production themselves, I certainly don't. We'll be lucky if we see a production increase at all.
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Cobra_Strike » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 20:16:25

They must be including fuzzy math in their calculations.
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 21:30:53

Pdf available here

This is being reported in the NZ media thus:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il reserves are running out even faster than previously predicted.

For the last 30 years they have said oil reserves are not in crisis now in a massive u-turn, the International Energy Agency says demand driven by exponential growth will outstrip supply within 3 to 5 years.

Link
I haven't had time to read the report yet, but this seems like quite a turnaround from the IEA?
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby TonyPrep » Sat 14 Jul 2007, 05:07:56

Not quite a sudden turnaround. This is an article from last November: link
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Zardoz » Sat 14 Jul 2007, 12:13:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The IEA', 'N')et oilfield decline rates average 4.6% annually for non-OPEC and 3.2% per year for OPEC crude. Aggregate levels mask much sharper declines in a 15-20% per annum range for mature producing areas and for many recent deepwater developments. All told, the forecast suggests the industry needs to generate 3.0 mb/d of new supply each year just to offset decline.

Thank you, IEA gnomes, for confirming that we're dead meat.
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Cyrus » Sun 15 Jul 2007, 02:16:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The IEA', 'N')et oilfield decline rates average 4.6% annually for non-OPEC and 3.2% per year for OPEC crude. Aggregate levels mask much sharper declines in a 15-20% per annum range for mature producing areas and for many recent deepwater developments. All told, the forecast suggests the industry needs to generate 3.0 mb/d of new supply each year just to offset decline.

Thank you, IEA gnomes, for confirming that we're dead meat.


How is it remotely possible that some are still denying we are about to fall off a cliff? Are they in denial?
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Re: IEA OMR for July

Unread postby Cobra_Strike » Sun 15 Jul 2007, 02:41:19

They are not denying much at this point, only trying to spin it.
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