[BILL_THA_PHARMACIZT]

http://www.publicenemy.com/pb/viewtopic.php?t=14562

[Tanada]

I still don't have mine, do you have yours?

[Denny]

Isn't this just meant as an alternative to a passport, for land crossings at Canada and Mexico? I think the idea is that its quicker in the inspection points as its "open" and it should be cheaper than a passport.

I think Canada is considereing something similar. Quicker and cheaper to produce than a pasport.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')sn't this just meant as an alternative to a passport, for land crossings at Canada and Mexico? I think the idea is that its quicker in the inspection points as its "open" and it should be cheaper than a passport.

I think Canada is considereing something similar. Quicker and cheaper to produce than a pasport.

[drew]

It's time someone started marketing lead wallets isn't it?

RFID is surely blockable by some means.

Lead wallets, hmmm..

they may pull the ole pants down might they?

the last thing we need is more butt cleavage.

Drew

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')The proposed new national ID card would change all that, and have an included RFID chip to boot making it possible for TPTB to track you with simple readers at say bank entrances or street intersections. With the proliferation of 'traffic' camera's on the streets and an RFID national ID card the Federal government, or anyone accessing the Homeland security system, would be able to track your movements and whom you were associating with any time they choose to do so.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')The proposed new national ID card would change all that, and have an included RFID chip to boot making it possible for TPTB to track you with simple readers at say bank entrances or street intersections. With the proliferation of 'traffic' camera's on the streets and an RFID national ID card the Federal government, or anyone accessing the Homeland security system, would be able to track your movements and whom you were associating with any time they choose to do so.

[sysfce2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', 'I')t's time someone started marketing lead wallets isn't it?

RFID is surely blockable by some means.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Montana's governor signed a bill yesterday in defiance of the Real ID Act. House Bill 287 [PDF] requires the Montana Motor Vehicle Division to not implement the provisions of the Real ID Act, and to report to the governor any attempts by any agent or agency of the Department of Homeland Security to attempt to implement the bill. Montana is the first state to implement such a law."

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') few years ago one of my co-workers was stopped for drunk and disorderly conduct while walking down a public sidewalk from one Fraternity to another. He was arrested becuase he did not have picture ID on his person and therefore the police had to take him to the station and fingerprint him in order to issue a citation.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') few years ago one of my co-workers was stopped for drunk and disorderly conduct while walking down a public sidewalk from one Fraternity to another. He was arrested becuase he did not have picture ID on his person and therefore the police had to take him to the station and fingerprint him in order to issue a citation.

[Ferretlover]

National ID Card Talk Sinks Immigration Bill Friday, June 29, 2007
Opposition to a requirement for a national identification card helped torpedo the immigration bill killed in the Senate on Thursday. On Wednesday evening, senators voted to delete language in the immigration bill that would force employers to demand the "Real ID” cards from new hires. Some of the immigration bill’s supporters had insisted that the ID provision remain in place as a way to identify illegal immigrants, and with that provision removed they were no longer as willing to support the overall bill, according to CNET News. "The proponents of a national ID in the Senate weren’t getting what they wanted, so they backed away,” said Jim Harper, a policy analyst at the Cato Institute who opposed Real ID. "It was a landmine that blew up in their faces.” The American Civil Liberties Union, which also opposed Real ID, said the identification card requirement was a "poison pill that derailed this bill, and any future legislation should be written knowing the American people won’t swallow it.” Even though the immigration bill appears dead, the Real ID Act is still in effect, CNET News notes. It requires that starting on May 11, 2008, Americans will need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security or use almost any government service. © NewsMax 2007. All rights reserved. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007 ... shtml?s=ic

I wonder why I have visions of Gestapo agents demanding to see my papers??...............

[kevincarter]

My I present to you the "salami technique"?

This is exactlly what's going on in North America right now, the salami thechnique, and it hasn't have anything to do with food, but with your freedom beeing taken in small tiny slices, you won't make a fuss for one tiny small slice, would you?

Same happened in Poland with the jews, first they wern't allowed to enter in some bars or shops, you wouldn't start a revolution because of that, right? you wouldn't protest much or do anything, its just a stupid dumb restriction that does no harm.
Then they made them wear a pice of cloth that identified them, again you wouldn't make a fuss because of a little piece of cloth on your arm
Then they wouldn't lett them have more than X amount of money at home
Then goods confiscation
Then curfew
Then house searches
Then forced them to move to a gettho
Then forced them to work for free
Then moved them to a concentration camp...
We know the rest

The point is that it was slice by slice that they took all their freedoms, had they gone the first day to the jews and told them: "we are taking you to a detention camp", and a revolution would have started.

Same thing with american national ID, first is so you can go to Canada without hassle, then you MUST carry it in the US, then anti track wallets are a fellony... don't under estimate the dangers of having a national ID, this is just the first slice.

[Ferretlover]

I would have to agree with your assessment.
The first public notice of the loss of US civil liberties was that Patriot Act. Wiretapping, etc-Without have to obtain a Warrant??
That is outrageous!

[Kingcoal]

If you have a Social Security number, you already have a United States (federal) ID card. The only thing different about this is that it would now have your picture on it. A lot of people don't realize it, but you don't have to have a Social Security number. In order to get one, your parents signed you up for it. If you are in a public place, minding your own business, not doing anything illegal, you have the constitutional right to your privacy. If something happens around you, like a terrorist attack and you are interviewed by the police, you will be required to identify yourself with some accepted form of official ID. However, the federal government does not have the jurisdiction to broadly require citizens of one of the "several States" to have a federal ID unless that citizen is involved in an activity which comes under federal jurisdiction. The States, however, can require an ID credential as long as that credential doesn't violate something in the constitution. It's all a matter of jurisdiction, when you are a natural born State citizen and don't have any contracts with the federal government, you are not under federal jurisdiction, you are under State and Local jurisdiction.

All this goes back to the "Commerce Clause." Look it up, it's fascinating reading. The Constitutional Commerce Clause has been so liberally interpreted by the courts that it's a wonder that the States even exist anymore. Law schools jokingly refer to the Commerce Clause as the "everything clause" because it's been used to justify every kind of Federal intrusion imaginable. Recently, one Supreme Court justice complained that the Commerce Clause has been abused and that abuse should be curtailed to prevent the establishment of a national Police State. Thank god for the Supreme Court! Without them, we'd be in a complete totalitarian society by now.