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Where the extra oil money is going...

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby cube » Tue 19 Jun 2007, 21:24:35

Remember folks, every time you go to a gas/petrol station to fill up your car this is what the "power elite" within the Arab world are spending the extra money on:

A set of new tires for a spoiled teenage son.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UEz9DJ9br48

Indoor snow skiing at a shopping mall. (I wonder what the air conditioning bill is?)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SlIVtZJM7ps& ... ed&search=

Building an artificial island to make beach front property. I guess these folks don't believe in global warming.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m-X3jpgQJG8& ... ed&search=

A 7 star hotel for $8,000 a night.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kp_6OnupBaY& ... ed&search=

It's good to see the leaders of the Middle East "invest" the money to help create a "sustainable" future for the citizens they serve! :wink:
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 06:33:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'W')hat is your point?

That Saudis are spendthrifts?

Why waste time pointing at them and commenting?

Here in America we spend our cheap oil derived inflated incomes on being fat and big screen TVs.


The point being that 'they' live in a very unstable area of the world and have some of the fastest growing, young populations globally. And instead of investing in infrastructure, education and in their economies in general with these 'finite' revenues they are doing 'almost' everything possible to squander them with a few notable exceptions.

Also, if you have ever heard the term, 'you cannot have your cake and eat it too', then you realize that burning natural gas, for example, to desalinate seawater instead of exporting it is not a very good strategy in the long-run. All these manmade projects in the desert take huge amounts of energy to run, not unlike the American SW.

So Americans may be fat and wasteful as you suggest, but pointing out others' spendthrift ways does serve the purpose of changing the argument from America's a prolific consumer of last resort to conspicuous consumption in all forms is rather tasteless and counter-productive. Do you have a problem with that?
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby pup55 » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 07:38:38

I said all along, there ought to be a picture of Osama Bin Laden on every gas pump in the US. One with a smiling face, saying "thank you for driving".
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby Gerben » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 07:42:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')he point being that 'they' live in a very unstable area of the world ...


They do? The Saud's have been ruling the desert for centuries. Their kingdom was established many decades ago. No wars were fought on their soil since The Great War. They have only stable neighbours except Iraq, which was invaded by a foreign government. They are much more stable than western countries where governments can change every 4 years or so.
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 10:48:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerben', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')he point being that 'they' live in a very unstable area of the world ...


They do? The Saud's have been ruling the desert for centuries. Their kingdom was established many decades ago. No wars were fought on their soil since The Great War. They have only stable neighbours except Iraq, which was invaded by a foreign government. They are much more stable than western countries where governments can change every 4 years or so.


Well, who said anything about the House of Saud? Those links are mainly of Dubai if I am not mistaken. There are OPEC oil producers outside of SA. There is also al Qaeda that would love to over throw your Sauds. No violence in the ME? Oops, sorry my mistake, I guess...
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby Bas » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 11:19:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '
')So Americans may be fat and wasteful as you suggest, but pointing out others' spendthrift ways does serve the purpose of changing the argument from America's a prolific consumer of last resort to conspicuous consumption in all forms is rather tasteless and counter-productive. Do you have a problem with that?


Ah finally someone who agrees with me that the rich are inefficient, wasteful and generally a liability to the economy and welfare of the common people, bring out the guillotine!! :roll:
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby NoLogos » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 11:29:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '<')/div>
And instead of investing in infrastructure, education and in their economies in general with these 'finite' revenues they are doing 'almost' everything possible to squander them with a few notable exceptions.
[/quote]

I wonder what would happen if they *did* invest in their infrastructure and education. The people there would burn even more of the oil themselves, and an educated population might demand a large share of the oil monies. Can't have that, I suppose.
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 11:31:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '
')So Americans may be fat and wasteful as you suggest, but pointing out others' spendthrift ways does serve the purpose of changing the argument from America's a prolific consumer of last resort to conspicuous consumption in all forms is rather tasteless and counter-productive. Do you have a problem with that?


Ah finally someone who agrees with me that the rich are inefficient, wasteful and generally a liability to the economy and welfare of the common people, bring out the guillotine!! :roll:


Yes, except the common folk become just as wasteful as soon as they get any money, too. Witness the increased level of consumption in Alberta from their new found oil wealth and tight job market. They literally cannot spend their paycheques on 4x4 trucks, quads, seadoos and luxury goods quick enough!
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby Bas » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 13:03:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '
')
Ah finally someone who agrees with me that the rich are inefficient, wasteful and generally a liability to the economy and welfare of the common people, bring out the guillotine!! :roll:


Yes, except the common folk become just as wasteful as soon as they get any money, too. Witness the increased level of consumption in Alberta from their new found oil wealth and tight job market. They literally cannot spend their paycheques on 4x4 trucks, quads, seadoos and luxury goods quick enough!


Ah yes, it is probable that when that wealth was concentrated in one or a few, the invest percentage would be much higher.

Same goes for the new oil wealth of the M-E, the money that would have otherwise been spent on consumption by westerners will now be for a much bigger part be available for investment.

Right now that investment is done quite "foolishly" but with rising energy prices, paradoxally those same sheiks may become the biggest investors in all sorts of solar projects.
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 14:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerben', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')he point being that 'they' live in a very unstable area of the world ...


They do? The Saud's have been ruling the desert for centuries. Their kingdom was established many decades ago. No wars were fought on their soil since The Great War. They have only stable neighbours except Iraq, which was invaded by a foreign government. They are much more stable than western countries where governments can change every 4 years or so.


Unstable as in unsustainable. In the next decade, millions of Saudis will be graduating HS and U only to realize that they won't have any jobs...and they'll readily notice a few things: their rulers' extravagent ways, US presence in Iraq (possibly Iran, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, etc), and an ever strengthening and aggressive Israeli state. Now what 'good' can come of that?

Anyway, this is fucking disgusting. 20 mpd comes out of that region. That's a billion dollars a day at least.

As far as investment, I recall one prince is donating $10 bln (US) for education in the region. Not sure how much attention that got on here. Not amazing, but at least decent.
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 15:03:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NoLogos', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '<')/div>
And instead of investing in infrastructure, education and in their economies in general with these 'finite' revenues they are doing 'almost' everything possible to squander them with a few notable exceptions.


I wonder what would happen if they *did* invest in their infrastructure and education. The people there would burn even more of the oil themselves, and an educated population might demand a large share of the oil monies. Can't have that, I suppose.[/quote]

The most important thing they could do, the thing that would have changed everything would have been to have used their own oil to achieve an economic miracle vis a vis manufacturing. Anything in the modern world that demands mod-high energy inputs to produce could have been made in the ME more cheaply than anywhere else in the world. Of course, it is difficult to maintain a monarchy amidst a successful modern economy, too many goups are powerful enough to demand and get a share of power.

I say they could have done this. It is all over now. I think they have so over done it underground with horizontal drilling and other gross extraction techniques that the possibility for carrying it off no longer exists. With the amount of investment needed to upgrade the economy and retool the infrastructure with properly minded citizens needed now vs what level of oil is left, it is just too much to expect from a reluctant monarchy.

Possibly it could be done in Iraq because they haven't over done it so badly. Even there, however, they will need new discovery and an immediate change toward western thinking, but not to the West. They will never pull it off if they can't stay independent of the Western overseers.
When it comes down to it, the people will always shout, "Free Barabbas." They love Barabbas. He's one of them. He has the same dreams. He does what they wish they could do. That other guy is more removed, more inscrutable. He makes them think. "Crucify him."
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby cube » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 17:32:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '.')..
Ah finally someone who agrees with me that the rich are inefficient, wasteful and generally a liability to the economy and welfare of the common people, bring out the guillotine!! :roll:
Not necessarily. I think it depends how a person acquired their wealth whether they inherited it or had to work for it. Look at Warren Buffet....if the Arab leaders just had 10% of his "common sense" the Middle East would be a very different place.

Yes I know it's very "fashionable" to be critical of America these days. However I firmly believe one of the major reasons why America became wealthy is because the rich had to work for their money therefore it forced them to make good decisions. Compare that system to how 3rd world nations operate where people are either born into privilege or not. I think the current state of the middle east supports the theory that:

"Men are seldom blessed with good fortune and good sense at the same time." Roman proverb :-D

BTW a lot of middle east leaders are actually more afraid of "regime change" coming from within a la French revolution style rather then a US invasion. Whatever disappointment you may have for the system in America/(western world) does NOT compare to what a person in the 3rd world feels making $2 / day while the "elites" drive $200,000 luxury cars.
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Re: Where the extra oil money is going...

Unread postby Twilight » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 20:09:25

Another disaster in the making, that's all.
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